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Trumpy #184497 02/11/09 09:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,370
Likes: 1
Cat Servant
Marc ... good eye! You can make out the shadow!

Sprinkler codes have precedence, and are just about the only thing that can infringe upon 'working space.'

Mike ... the clamp used is intended to be used to attach a Ground wire (GEC) to the ground rod. It is NOT intended to be used to splice wires together. Our code would call for either cad-weld or a crimp connection here.

Last edited by frenchelectrican; 02/12/09 07:39 PM. Reason: fix John's spelling on one letter
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Trumpy #184530 02/12/09 01:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 144
omg my jaw was on the floor, and that all looks new!

“then we'll glue em' then screw em'”
-Tom Silva
JoeKP #184536 02/12/09 01:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,333
Likes: 7

"Are the double flex connectors being used because the runs are parallelled for increased ampacity? That flex doesn't look big enough to have wires that are eligible to be run in parallel."

The duplex conn are commonly used for 2 cables in 1 KO. Cables in the pics are probably 12 or 14AWG. I would hope they are NOT paralled, Bill will have to check that part.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,672
Likes: 2
Admin Offline OP
Originally Posted by HotLine1
Bill will have to check that part.

not me, BTW. This Bill is from Nevada.


Admin #184550 02/12/09 11:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Originally Posted by Webmaster
Originally Posted by HotLine1
Bill will have to check that part.

not me, BTW. This Bill is from Nevada.


What ever! Get on it!! smile smile smile

leland #184564 02/13/09 12:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,333
Likes: 7
Oops. Wrong Bill I guess!

Trumpy #184590 02/13/09 10:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14
It looks very,very shabby,but Im with reno, not too many code issues. Open KO and cold water clamp on bare copper slice, temp. adjustments for mega j-box Workspace maybe, around here we get 8" for mounting panels on top of CT cabs, gutters ect.. All really common violations in my world at least, the fact that it looks like someone had all you can eat pasta bar and puked it up draws lots of attention to it. I bet the real badness and safety issues are behind the dead fronts and devices.

How many maintenance guys do you know that "used to be" electricians?
Trumpy #184594 02/13/09 10:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 76
Good catch frenchelectrican I was just thinking too. I would have used a split bolt. I like your signature too, rather appropriate here, especially for the last picture.

I have a sense of adventure, I just keep it leashed with common sense.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,722
Broom Pusher and
Let's get the Ranting over with first! wink

Rant Mode = Enabled.

The installation looks horrible!
It resembles the same base material found inside of Fertilizer Bags, and therefore should be rated to it's "Bandini Value" - which, in this case, is a very high Bandini Value (+95.50% Bandini Factor)

EMT is as readilly available as MC Cable and Flex (Flexible Metallic Conduit).
It does require some "Talent", so there is a challenge for installation.

In the 4th Image, the "Appears to be recently installed" Panelboard could had been fed with a short EMT section between the two Panelboards, instead of running the Flex in to the bottom.
Running the Panelboard Feeders through the sides would have eliminated the "Stand-Off for a Stand-Off Strap" issue which resulted from having to "Weave" the Flex runs. (notice how the Mini is screwed to the wall via 4" long toggle bolt!)

Where the Pull Box is used, the amount of labor + materials involved to use MC Cable + Flex between the Panelboard and Pull Box, has got to be 1000% higher than any EMT installation could possibly run!

There appears to be at least (16) MC terminations, and at least (2) Flex terminations per run, so there will be (32) MC terminations and (4) Flex terminations total.
Think about how much labor is involved here!:
* removing the sheathing,
* inserting and landing the MC Connectors,
* making up the EGCs (Equipment Grounding Conductors),
* "attempting" to strap / secure the MC + Flex;

whereas (2) or (3) 1" EMT runs would only have (4) or (6) termination points, (1) properly sized EGC, correctly matched Neutrals per Circuit, and no strapping needed (appears to be less than 24" between the Panelboard and the Pull Box).

Lastly, the "Recently Installed???" Panelboard's front cover looks great where the Panel is mounted _IN_ a wall, but looks like Bovine Fecal Matter when used for Surface Mounting!

OK, Ranting is over.

Rant Mode = Disabled.

There are a few Code Compliance issues to pick out, besides the obvious lack of interest with Article 110.12!
Outside of these items, the installations are Compliant.

1:] The "Avoid Contact of disimilar Metals" issue was attempted, but does not appear successful!
The Black Duct Tape "Appears" to me, intended for insulating the Aluminum Flex + Aluminum sheathing of the MC cable from the Steel Sprinkler lines.

The MC / Flex "bundles" may have a better chance at accomplishing this than the 1" Flex over the Sprinkler Head stub Tape job (First Image). The Tape should run past the Ells + Nipple to be effective.

2:] The MC Cables _SHOULD_ be supported _AND SECURED_ at maximum 6 Foot intervals, along with 12 Inches maximum at Termination points.
Not specifically defined per NEC, strapping methods could be anything that fits the definition of an acceptable means, however, the Cables would need to be _SECURED_ individually at the termination points (Panelboards and Pull Box).

3:] The Grouping of the MC cables may not Conform to NEC, per Article 330.

4:]The Flex runs _SHOULD_ be individually supported _AND SECURED_ at maximum 4-1/2 Foot intervals, along with 12 Inches maximum at termination points via an _APPROVED MEANS_.

5:] There is a possible listing issue with some of the Flex Connectors.
There are several which appear to be EMT Set Screw Connectors.
I am aware of Set Screw Flex Connectors, but a few of these look more like EMT Connectors.

6:] Article 300 mentions Cables shall not support other Cables. I see several places where this is done.

7:] K.O. seal needed in bottom of Pull Box.

8:] The use of a "Pipe Clamp" type Grounding Clamp is not listed (as far as I know) to connect (2) or more Conductors, as shown in the last Image.


Last edited by Scott35; 02/19/09 01:57 AM. Reason: fixed text wrapping issues

Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
Scott35 #186314 05/03/09 06:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,722
Broom Pusher and
EL-BUMP-O!!! smile

While Trolling this area, came across an older reply of which I was the last respondent (lack of better term...), so as to initiate the EL-BUMP-O!!! function.


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
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