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Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? #184080
02/01/09 01:25 AM
02/01/09 01:25 AM
G
garykidd  Offline OP
New Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1
tennessee
Welcome all. I have a question about a 1960 vintage heat/vent light combo unit. I describe the switch as hot/black-- in neutral/white into switch box. 3 switches and a pilot lite here. 2 whites leave switch box 1 with black reidentifing it a current carrying conductor, 2 black wires leave switch box as current carrying conductors. all 4 of these wires go to 2 receptacles in the fan compartment. 1 black and one white on each receptacle. lite switch turns on lite, fan switch make fan blow out, heat switch make fan blow in and heat come and pilot lite come on.
I can see this working on a newer style unit with 2 fans with 1 neutral and 3 hots and 3 receptacles . Thats easy to do. But the theory behind having 1 neutral and 3 hots cause the single fan motor to reverse have me wondering. I replaced this unit at house today And haven't seen this wiring set up before. A friend said maybe a shaded pole motor might be reversed to make this work. I have done new house wiring and much industrial wiring for over 20 years but this is the first time I've seen this setup. thanks Gary

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Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: garykidd] #184107
02/01/09 06:57 PM
02/01/09 06:57 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,036
Brick, NJ USA
Internal connection within the unit that when the 'heat' is energized, the 'fan' blows in; or....is there a fan within the heater section?

2 recept within unit; 1 for fan, 1 for heat? & the re-id's white turns the light 'on' which must be 'hard wired'?

Just a guess.

BTW: Welcome to ECN!


John
Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: HotLine1] #184133
02/02/09 10:34 PM
02/02/09 10:34 PM
J
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 799
Chicago, Il.
This is about the only way I think they could have done it as you described with 3 hots and a neutral. Do you know if there is a capacitor in the fan unit? I have never seen a setup wired this way but it could probably be done.
Joe


Attached Files
FANCOMBO.JPG (89 downloads)
Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: JoeTestingEngr] #184134
02/02/09 10:37 PM
02/02/09 10:37 PM
J
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 799
Chicago, Il.
Now if I could only figure out what happened to part of my ladder, capacitor, and fan???
Joe

Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: JoeTestingEngr] #184153
02/03/09 09:40 AM
02/03/09 09:40 AM
S
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
Chesapeake, VA
Is there a relay in the fan compartment? Seems like a pretty trivial job for a 3P2T relay. "Fan Out" on NC / "fan in" NO with the heat switch powering the coil; with the neutral on the third pole as double-throw.

Joe: in your diagram, the fan switch does nothing, and the fan comes on with the light?

Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: SteveFehr] #184160
02/03/09 02:55 PM
02/03/09 02:55 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,298
Estero,Fl,usa
I have an old fan light like that.
There are two SPDT center off switches controlling it.
One is the fan/heat, the other is light/nightlight.
It seems to be wired like Joe's picture if you put SPDT switches in there. The cable is 4 hots and a neutral. The 4th going to the candelabra base nightlight.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: gfretwell] #184179
02/03/09 10:01 PM
02/03/09 10:01 PM
J
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 799
Chicago, Il.
OK, I will try attaching it one more time with a wider line width before conversion.

Steve,
The fan switch would do nothing if you have selected heat. If not, it flips the windings that get the direct and phase shifted voltage, switching direction. Obviously, the motor windings, capacitor selection and effects of the parallel heating element would all be design considerations. Again, I've never seen it but think it can be done. You might get some heat out of a scheme like this when on fan but minimal compared to directly driving the heating element. Depending on the pilot light, it might illuminate this way. Better to make the "HEAT" switch DPDT and drive the pilot lamp from the 2nd pole.
Joe


Attached Files
FANCOMBO.JPG (51 downloads)
Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: JoeTestingEngr] #184212
02/04/09 03:07 PM
02/04/09 03:07 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,298
Estero,Fl,usa
This is how my old Spartan is wired

[Linked Image]


Greg Fretwell
Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: gfretwell] #184225
02/04/09 10:12 PM
02/04/09 10:12 PM
J
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 799
Chicago, Il.
Greg,
Your unit makes much more sense than the OP's with 3 switches. The 4th hot on yours accounts for the night light. Yours has to go through off to switch direction while his would jam the motor switching HEAT on & off with FAN on. Does the pilot on yours light dimly on FAN? I think yours would be more cost effective with 2, SPDT- Center off switches than my drawing with 3, SPDTs or 1 SPDT & 2 SPSTs. I just drew it to match the way he described it.
Joe


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