ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
VFD MotorFeeders
by gfretwell. 10/17/17 10:01 PM
What do you do?
by gfretwell. 10/17/17 01:08 AM
Good ol' copper pipe in the fuse holder trick
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:16 PM
Generator Cable Sizing
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:13 PM
Another generator question
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:02 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
241,374 Are you busy
177,327 Re: Forum
168,951 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 58 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
#184080 - 02/01/09 01:25 AM Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage?  
garykidd  Offline
New Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1
tennessee
Welcome all. I have a question about a 1960 vintage heat/vent light combo unit. I describe the switch as hot/black-- in neutral/white into switch box. 3 switches and a pilot lite here. 2 whites leave switch box 1 with black reidentifing it a current carrying conductor, 2 black wires leave switch box as current carrying conductors. all 4 of these wires go to 2 receptacles in the fan compartment. 1 black and one white on each receptacle. lite switch turns on lite, fan switch make fan blow out, heat switch make fan blow in and heat come and pilot lite come on.
I can see this working on a newer style unit with 2 fans with 1 neutral and 3 hots and 3 receptacles . Thats easy to do. But the theory behind having 1 neutral and 3 hots cause the single fan motor to reverse have me wondering. I replaced this unit at house today And haven't seen this wiring set up before. A friend said maybe a shaded pole motor might be reversed to make this work. I have done new house wiring and much industrial wiring for over 20 years but this is the first time I've seen this setup. thanks Gary


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#184107 - 02/01/09 06:57 PM Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: garykidd]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,872
Brick, NJ USA
Internal connection within the unit that when the 'heat' is energized, the 'fan' blows in; or....is there a fan within the heater section?

2 recept within unit; 1 for fan, 1 for heat? & the re-id's white turns the light 'on' which must be 'hard wired'?

Just a guess.

BTW: Welcome to ECN!


John

#184133 - 02/02/09 10:34 PM Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: HotLine1]  
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 790
Chicago, Il.
This is about the only way I think they could have done it as you described with 3 hots and a neutral. Do you know if there is a capacitor in the fan unit? I have never seen a setup wired this way but it could probably be done.
Joe


Attached Files
FANCOMBO.JPG (89 downloads)

#184134 - 02/02/09 10:37 PM Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: JoeTestingEngr]  
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 790
Chicago, Il.
Now if I could only figure out what happened to part of my ladder, capacitor, and fan???
Joe


#184153 - 02/03/09 09:40 AM Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: JoeTestingEngr]  
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
Chesapeake, VA
Is there a relay in the fan compartment? Seems like a pretty trivial job for a 3P2T relay. "Fan Out" on NC / "fan in" NO with the heat switch powering the coil; with the neutral on the third pole as double-throw.

Joe: in your diagram, the fan switch does nothing, and the fan comes on with the light?


#184160 - 02/03/09 02:55 PM Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: SteveFehr]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,122
Estero,Fl,usa
I have an old fan light like that.
There are two SPDT center off switches controlling it.
One is the fan/heat, the other is light/nightlight.
It seems to be wired like Joe's picture if you put SPDT switches in there. The cable is 4 hots and a neutral. The 4th going to the candelabra base nightlight.


Greg Fretwell

#184179 - 02/03/09 10:01 PM Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: gfretwell]  
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 790
Chicago, Il.
OK, I will try attaching it one more time with a wider line width before conversion.

Steve,
The fan switch would do nothing if you have selected heat. If not, it flips the windings that get the direct and phase shifted voltage, switching direction. Obviously, the motor windings, capacitor selection and effects of the parallel heating element would all be design considerations. Again, I've never seen it but think it can be done. You might get some heat out of a scheme like this when on fan but minimal compared to directly driving the heating element. Depending on the pilot light, it might illuminate this way. Better to make the "HEAT" switch DPDT and drive the pilot lamp from the 2nd pole.
Joe


Attached Files
FANCOMBO.JPG (51 downloads)

#184212 - 02/04/09 03:07 PM Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: JoeTestingEngr]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,122
Estero,Fl,usa
This is how my old Spartan is wired

[Linked Image]


Greg Fretwell

#184225 - 02/04/09 10:12 PM Re: Reversable fan/heat lite combo 1960 vintage? [Re: gfretwell]  
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 790
Chicago, Il.
Greg,
Your unit makes much more sense than the OP's with 3 switches. The 4th hot on yours accounts for the night light. Yours has to go through off to switch direction while his would jam the motor switching HEAT on & off with FAN on. Does the pilot on yours light dimly on FAN? I think yours would be more cost effective with 2, SPDT- Center off switches than my drawing with 3, SPDTs or 1 SPDT & 2 SPSTs. I just drew it to match the way he described it.
Joe



Member Spotlight
mxslick
mxslick
Atomic City, ID USA
Posts: 803
Joined: October 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.022s Queries: 17 (0.005s) Memory: 0.8047 MB (Peak: 0.9773 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-10-18 18:31:18 UTC