ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Tingle off the water spigot
by dsk. 10/15/18 02:36 PM
Board tester power supply?
by JoeTestingEngr. 10/13/18 12:14 AM
Voltage sag
by Trumpy. 10/12/18 06:59 PM
220/230/240V 60Hz Systems
by Trumpy. 10/12/18 06:50 PM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (HotLine1), 34 guests, and 27 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Wiring Method/Material Question #181453
10/08/08 06:58 PM
10/08/08 06:58 PM
Admin  Offline
OP
Administrator
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,516
NY, USA
Quote
Hi,

Can someone provide identification and/or additional information for this material, found at the basement ceiling in a Park Ridge IL House built (according to tax records) 1944/45? - it's a bit different from any K&T wiring method/material I have encountered previously, and I'd like to precisely identify it in my report..


Michael T.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Tools for Electricians:
Re: Wiring Method/Material Question [Re: Admin] #181455
10/08/08 07:20 PM
10/08/08 07:20 PM
E
EV607797  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
That looks like a K&T transition to a box. The loom is placed over the individual conductors before they enter a box. I seriously doubt that is was installed in 1944/45 though. They were using BX and even non-grounded Romex at that time.

Not to mention, hasn't the Chicago area (union) always required that wiring be in conduit since the beginning of time?


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
Re: Wiring Method/Material Question [Re: EV607797] #181457
10/08/08 07:42 PM
10/08/08 07:42 PM
L
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Agreed, clearly a transition. As far as dateing.. Pre-40s', but I'm in New England and am not aware of the rest of the country at that time.

Re: Wiring Method/Material Question [Re: leland] #181465
10/09/08 09:35 PM
10/09/08 09:35 PM
J
junkcollector  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 36
Central MN
There is a definite wire color difference- looks like one wire has a yellow insulation and the other is red? Seems odd.

If those are a hot and grounded conductors I was under the impression that there needed to be more separation and they can't be on the same knob, which was why cleats were used.

Re: Wiring Method/Material Question [Re: junkcollector] #181477
10/11/08 11:20 AM
10/11/08 11:20 AM
L
leland  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
Lowell area, Ma. USA
Perhaps a switch leg? Explaining the same insulator.
Asfar as color, I have seen alot of this with the later K&T.
Shortly before the transition to cables.

Re: Wiring Method/Material Question [Re: leland] #181486
10/11/08 02:29 PM
10/11/08 02:29 PM
H
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
That is old K&T wiring. As stated the loom was used when the single conductor wire turned corners. When wire was run in a straight line paralel to the floor joist, the K&T would rest under the individual knobs or when the crossed through the beams then the ran in the tubes. When you were running from the ceiling and wanted to turn down a wall. They electrician would slide the loom over the single 14 ga RH wire. It prevent the wire from chafing on the wooden beams. Here in northern NJ there is still a lot of K&T wiring in homes around here. Also as stated the loom would protect the singel strand wire when it entered a box.

Re: Wiring Method/Material Question [Re: EV607797] #182926
12/18/08 08:07 PM
12/18/08 08:07 PM
C
cschow  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 41
Boise, ID, USA
Originally Posted by EV607797


Not to mention, hasn't the Chicago area (union) always required that wiring be in conduit since the beginning of time?


I remember that too. K&T was mostly prevalent out West after the 30's. However, judging by the fact that the wire spacing is not to code, even by early K&T standards, and 2 wires on 1 knob, I vote this is an old homeowner hack job.

Re: Wiring Method/Material Question [Re: cschow] #182927
12/18/08 10:56 PM
12/18/08 10:56 PM
HotLine1  Online Content

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,035
Brick, NJ USA
Two (2) wires on 1 knob? They are designed/mfg for two (2) conductors.

As mentioned above, 'loom' was used at box entry points, and the conductors would have to be closely spaced to enter a device box; hence the 'loom'!

What 'code' are you referencing for wire spacing?



John

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
JoeKP
JoeKP
Berkley, MA
Posts: 144
Joined: March 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
sparky 11
Popular Topics(Views)
250,301 Are you busy
187,940 Re: Forum
177,469 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.030s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9954 MB (Peak: 1.1572 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-10-16 17:26:49 UTC