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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 984
Likes: 1
G
Member
#8 has been in the NEC for several cycles.
I worked for Appleton back when it got added to the Code and I lost track of how many skidloads of handybox and 1900 covers we had to pitch because we couldn't legally sell them anymore.


Ghost307
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
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LK Offline
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"Theres about $350 in permit costs already, this new permit will be an estimated additional $350."

So the next time, you get one of these jobs, check it over for existing violations, whenever you see DIY work, you can bet there wil be problems, also, you may want to adjust your rates, $900 is what the average kitchen job cable costs before we add any labor, a job like yours with DIY work can cost 3 or 4 times the average price.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,349
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Cat Servant
Member
This thread opens a whole can of worms for me ....

The first is the matter of the actual installation. I'd like some elaboration on some of the details ... for example, is placing the range plug behind the range considered making it 'inaccessible?' This would also lead to a discussion of what differences there are between the NEC and the Michigan code.

A different matter are the administrative issues brought up by the citation. Let's forget, for the moment, just how unfair the inspector might be .... that piece of paper will last forever, even take on a life of it's own. Even if that inspector is 100% wrong, and gets fired for it, that letter will continue to circulate. Everyone in the AHJ's office will see it, and might very well decide that you must be the worst sort of hack, needing close attention.

A third issue is one I've raised before ... cabinet makers make absolutely no allowances for the required electrical aspects of a kitchen. The inaccessible plug behind the dishwasher, the split receptacle under the sink seem to be standard.

Some of the citations seem to suggest an inspector on a crusade ... for example, the complaints about the panel have me thinking "FPE" .... and the near religious zeal some have on that topic. Nor have I ever had to open a junction or device box. If so, the inspector is exceeding his authority.

Inspections are a delicate topic. Sure, you like to have your work reviewed .... but there's little recourse available that does not also entail very real risks for you down the road. If the situation is that bad, you'll have to be both creative, and diplomatic, in addressing the matter. This is one situation where membership in a trade group can help; the trade group can bring up the issues, removing the 'bulls' eye' from your business.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 251
T
Member
I understand all about inspectors doing their job. There are valid issues on this report.

I can assure you I try my best to do quality work.

After speaking with the inspector on the phone this morning I was told. I would need to write the city and say im not responsible. He said he will then charge the manager 4 hours inspection time, plus the violations. I was then told people are doing alot of rehabs and business in Detroit, someones making money. ...

Someones making money? *** is this suppose to mean? hey guy it ain't me.... This is why this inspector has a reputation that proceeds him. If this continues, I cannot do business in the area of Detroit he inspects. I get alot of work from the people doing these projects.

Last edited by electure; 04/18/08 05:22 PM.

Shake n Bake
Joined: Jan 2003
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"I would need to write the city and say im not responsible."


How can you not be responsible, if you did the work? are you telling us everything?

The days of inspectors making up their own rules, are long gone, they need to address the codes as they stand, not how they see them, they stoppes the inspections with no grouns many years back when cities were sued for some inspectors actions, today they do by the law as adopted by each city or state goverment.

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 20
B
Member
And these are the same bureaucrats that want to take over the health care system? God help us!

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,289
Member
bman,

Bureaucrats, Healthcare and politics are not the reason we're here.

It's an electrical bulletin board.

There are a number of bulletin boards willing to discuss the political issues.

ECN is not one of them.






Joined: Jan 2003
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Originally Posted by electure
bman,

Bureaucrats, Healthcare and politics are not the reason we're here.

It's an electrical bulletin board.

There are a number of bulletin boards willing to discuss the political issues.

ECN is not one of them.


I wish the guys would try to understand the inspection system, why we have it, and how it is operated.

From the beginning the insurance underwriters are the ones that want a codes enforced, and they promote the development of codes to make the industry a safer working place, not a goverment activity, the government only addopts the codes to be used.






Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,745
Likes: 13
G
Member
In my humble (former inspector) opinion, this guy was offended that you didn't show up to walk him through the inspection and he threw the book at you.
I don't agree with that thinking but I have seen others who feel that way.
Personally I don't mind walking around looking on my own but I was never in a hurry when I was inspecting.

I bet, if you fixed the things that are really (or he perceives as) wrong and walked the job with him next time it would be all smiles and green lights.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 706
T
Member
I think in over 10 years I've had 3 Correction Notices, all handled on the phone and two removed after getting on the same page of the NEC. The third was a local requirement for an EGC to be in bonded IMC. I'd personally welcome an inspection which quoted line & verse of the NEC, or MEC in this case. I'd also welcome an inspection beyond the scope of my contract. That smells like a sweet Change Order.

Dave

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