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#176709 04/09/08 08:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
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I just had a thought. I see a lot of posts that deal with AHJ's who make up their own rules ( so says the post) and I see people who dislike the AHJ's rule. In my state (NJ) If I don't like the AHJ's ruling I have a recourse. I can take it to the Construction Board of Appeals (CBOA). There I would have a chance to state my side of the story against the AHJ. In NJ the panel is made up of 5 people. There is 1 person from every trade ( Building, Fire, Plumbing, Electrical and 1 other) who will listen to both sides of the story and make a ruling. Sometimes they will side with the AHJ and sometimes with the other side. ( Be it homeowner or contractor or town) My question would be, how many other states has this kind of CBOA board with which to challenge the AHJ? After all AHJ's might think it, but they too are only human and they may make mistakes. I am just curious to see if other states have this option.

harold endean #176727 04/10/08 05:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 680
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How long does it take to get in front of this group?? I can see people just repairing the job to get it done rather than wait for a meeting to settle the issue.

We have no recourse in Maine that I know of. We used to have a head state inspector that would go to bat for you if he thought you were right, unfortunately he retired.

walrus #176728 04/10/08 05:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
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We have a lot of "me" codes. I don't think they do it intentionally, they just don't necessarily know any better- we all make mistakes. And they're government workers and don't really get the right resources, either- a few months after my state adopted IBC 2003, the inspections dept still hadn't seen a physical copy of it and were eagerly thumbing through mine when I came in to ask a question, lol.

In my city, we can always appeal to the next higher authority. If the inspector doesn't like it, you can appeal to the trade inspector supervisor. If you still disagree, you can take it to the city engineer. I'm not sure if you could take it to the mayor/city council from there, but as they write the legislature, I'd imagine you could.

I'd think it's really not nice to piss off your inspectors going around them like this, though. So it'd better be something very important, unless the inspector really does agree with you but feels bound to the letter of the law and is unwilling to go out on a limb as his more experienced supervisor(s) might.

SteveFehr #176732 04/10/08 06:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,283
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Our system is not perfect, but..it works. IMHO, I feel that most of the 'my way or the highway' guys are gone.

THe BOA process is filing a form, paying a fee ($100 to $150) and getting on the list. I would venture a 60 day window. Keep in mind that this is a LEGAL proceeding, and involves another NJ mainstay....lawyers.



John
HotLine1 #176742 04/10/08 02:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Originally Posted by HotLine1
Our system is not perfect, but..it works. IMHO, I feel that most of the 'my way or the highway' guys are gone.

THe BOA process is filing a form, paying a fee ($100 to $150) and getting on the list. I would venture a 60 day window. Keep in mind that this is a LEGAL proceeding, and involves another NJ mainstay....lawyers.


Yes most of the my way guys are long retired, in jersey the inspectors are professional, and they back up their decision with a code article.

Is someone had a proplem with a ruling he can call Trenton and speak to a state inspector, that will try to clear up the issue, the ones that usually go the LEGAL proceeding, route, are usually builders looking to avoid some of the codes, becaust they think they will cost too much, not a good reason to change the rules.

LK #176747 04/10/08 05:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
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As Les said...the DCA in Trenton also provides 'opinions', BUT unless the 'opinion' results in a FTO (Formal Technical Opinion), all that it is is.....an opinion. THe AHJ has to be 'convinced' that the 'opinion' is valid.

My personal philosophy is to solve any issue 'man-to-man', as all of us are professionals and adults, and human, and YES...we all make mistakes.




John
HotLine1 #176748 04/10/08 06:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
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I agree working face to face and together. I have gotten a great repore with the contractors. It helps me and it helps them. If I find something that does not look right and I do not have my NEC in hand, I touch base with the sparkie on the site. I explain to him why I think there is a violation. Sometimes those exception to the rule throws everyone for a loop.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
HotLine1 #176749 04/10/08 06:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,288
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It sounds like it is easier just to bow to the inspector's demands.

Who's going to hold up a job for 60 days without an inspection, pay $150.00, and hire a lawyer just to prove their point?

GC will not hire you for future projects, Owner won't want to do business with you anymore. Inspector will resent you.

Sounds like a sure route to a liquidated damages claim if the job doesn't go according to schedule....of course you can always hire a lawyer to fight it in court.




electure #176750 04/10/08 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by electure
It sounds like it is easier just to bow to the inspector's demands.

Who's going to hold up a job for 60 days without an inspection, pay $150.00, and hire a lawyer just to prove their point?

GC will not hire you for future projects, Owner won't want to do business with you anymore. Inspector will resent you.

Sounds like a sure route to a liquidated damages claim if the job doesn't go according to schedule....of course you can always hire a lawyer to fight it in court.





Proper planning, and checking your work can avoid most inspection problems, our inspectors are pro's not the old command and control type guys, they have been gone for years, In my opinion working with your inspector will keep your work professional.

LK #176751 04/10/08 07:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,283
Likes: 3
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Electure:
The BOA is usually NOT a place where EC's wind up. It's for 'serious' situations....but...if an EC has the time, he can go that route.

40+ years in this field, and I have not been there, and as an AHJ...I have not been there either. As I said...settle it man-to-man.



John
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