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Photo's and info submitted by ECN Member NORCAL.

Panels and homeruns in wall dividing 2 garages:


Other pic of homerun:


View looking out through downstairs unit garage:


10/2 dryer feed for downstairs unit:


Waste of wire and "other" issues:


See any problems w/ the placement of the smoke alarm and the use of 12/2 for it?:


More bundles:


Closeup of hacked up top plate penetrations:


It was always proper for 10/2 NM for a dryer feed,not!:


Stringing NM anyway they want in downstairs unit:



Nice hole drilling job:
[img]https://www.electrical-contractor.net/mt/RM011.JPG[/img]

Lower part of same studbay going through the floor into the garage:
[img]https://www.electrical-contractor.net/mt/RM012.JPG[/img]

Thanks Mike.

save a life....light a match.

Plain old sloppy. And the placement of that smoke is no good too close to the air register. Also it seems to me the dividing wall between garages should be a fire wall, yet it looks like swiss cheese, with no sign of fire stopping in the holes.The only positive thing I can see is they used nail plates. but this is a very sloppy insatll al the way around

When you bundle cable like that I think you need to derate. They must only be installing 1 smoke and not connecting them. Last I checked you needed 1.25 " from outside edge of stud were the cables run down. I take it this did not pass!

Ob

That is correct. with that many wires bundled, derating is in order. (310.15(B)(2)). I also see a possible issue with the three gang switch box and wire fill.

All that time and effort the installer (not a sparkie) took in cut the chases in the wall plates. I typically punch a series of holes with a 5/8 of 3/4 inch bit and put a nailer between the studs. This will prevent me from bundling and makes for a clean installation. With the 4 holes he drilled to on the corners may have been enough for the wires in some of the pics. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

I wonder the yahoo who pulled the wire gets paid by the foot?

When I wired my brothers home several years ago, the GC advised me the home was not in the city so no inspections, so I do not have to follow the code. (Thats why my brother DID NOT want his electrician (a loose term) to wire it.

This is a duplex & it has not been inspected yet.

Probably won't be. If it is,won't pass.

As Far as loose ends down to the boxes. I don't staple until I'm cutting in. Pull across and down staple all the high stuff and do the drops at cut in.
Regarding pulling diagonal, perfectly legal In MA.(2008) as long as you have a 3/4"space from finish.

334.30
..."Where the cable is run diagonally behind strapping of a nominal 19mm (3/4-in) thickness it shall be considerd supported, secured,and in compliance with 334.17 where it is not pulled taught.".... -MEC-2008-

I don't agree, makes for a hack install.


Extra wire at boxes, I take that into account. makes it easier and faster at cut in. Why they shoved the cables in the box before cut in... no clue.

As far as the home runs go, thats a building inspectors issue. Very bad decision to boot.
Bundleing, They got some rework to do. Again the building inspectors issue.

Either way, someone is not going to be very happy.

This is exactly what happens when you go with the lowest bid.
It seems that many people outside of the trade have the opinion that electricians are a dime a dozen, but people actually in the trade know there is a big difference between electrician ‘A’ and electrician ‘B’. Too bad most customers don’t understand this.

KJay, your right!
Electrician "A" gets the job... Does it three (3) times.
Electrician "B" Looses the job.
So Neither make any money.
The customer gets mad. But learns nothing. Goes with the low bid the next time too.

Oh well, sit back and chuckle. Buyer beware!!!

Aside from that. How are things down there?
Better I hope.

I-joists + manufactured trusses + sloppy wiring = Fiery death trap that needs to be torched or torn down.

And I gotta meet the guy who hacked that nice rectangular hole. Introduce him to the carpentry and cabinetmaking instructors at school for a handshake, then bring him down to my shop for "punishment" by the seniors (read: cut 10 4 foot long pieces of 4" ridgid with a hacksaw, in other words, their work), then have me and the rest of the freshmen run him out of the school with the pieces of pipe he cut.

One more thing, if I ever had that much wire sticking out of a box my instructor would kill me for wasting wire. 8" of wire is enough for me, 20" is just wasting copper.

Ian A.

My opinion is that it's a GC or DIY job, I doubt a EC would do quite that bad,wasting that much wire and unless spec'ed otherwise they would not be using only 12/2 because that would hurt the bottom line.

Couple more pics:
Rollie, would you care to comment on these?

Norcal mentioned that the meter can is for surface mount not flush mount.

The typical customer's approach seems to be: "The electrical is in the walls, you can't see it, so why pay money for it?" as well as "It works, so what?"

I've just heard soooo many stories where people just finished hanging expensive wallpaper, retiling the kitchen,... only to find out their wiring is ancient and botched up as can be and they need a full rewire... and think solid plastered brick walls, not stud walls.

As a side note... the typical approach toloose wiring at boxes in my old company seemed to be to leave anything up to 6 feet(!) hanging out of the box. And no, I did not mean inches! I don't know if they charged the customer extra copper that way or if the guys were just ruining the company by wasting all that copper. All I know is that company was ingenious in ripping off customers. Taking down 9 regular light fixtures (put up a ladder, climb up disconnect wires, take down fixture, get down again, 10 minute job each for one guy) they had 3 guys for 2 full days... we (another 2 guys) took down the remaining 3 in half an hour. Or things like on Monday: "Man, I still have a hangover from Saturday! Let's just have a BBQ on site using bricks, an old grill and clean untreated scrap wood... that was all we did that day.
Or work 1 hour, sit around at the pub 5 hours drinking beer and charge 8 1/2 hours... I sure am glad I only did a 1 month internship at that company!

I don't see what the big deal is about the hacked rectangular holes. Doesn't look like they affected the structure in any way. probably why I buy tools so hacking isn't necessary. Maybe a fire code is violated though??

Doesn't recessing those panelboards in the wall separating the garages pretty much kill any fire ratings that they would otherwise have?
Here in the US; interior garage walls would need a 2-hour fire rating to keep a fire in the garage from spreading to the house.

The wall divides the 2 garages.So perhaps someone versed on building code issues will be kind enough & chime in

Whats holding that meter can up if its not mounted on the wall? Were are cables feeding out?

Ob

This looks to me like a hack "pro" did the work. No DIY would waste good wire like that. And the framing and concrete look professional- they use pressure treat where they need to, proper tie-down bolts, looks like the right fastener schedule was used, etc. Pity they'll have to come back and replace so much of it to pass the framing inspection. Plumbing looks pro, too.
No, recessing the panelboards like that is OK under IBC/IRC. The sheet metal housing acts as a firestop. Same goes for HVAC- it's OK, so long as the penetration is metal. So, ductboard in the garage, metal take-off punched through the drywall, transition to flex just inside the wall = OK. Plastic boxes with plastic covers are surprisingly OK as well, I guess 4" holes aren't the fire risk they may appear to be.

You have to figure that not only is there 5/8" type-X gypsum wallboard, the walls are also packed full of firestopping fiberglass insulation. It's not intended to stop a fire, or stop the spread of fire, just allow enough time for the occupants to escape before the house collapses.

Sorry, Steve, but I have to differ. First, though, I'll return to Norcal's question.

It's a very common requirement that there be a firewall in two circumstances: buildings adjoining each other ... and between the garage and living spaces. In both situations, a 1 hour rated wall is usually what's called for.

Now, that 1 hr. rating is pretty easy to achieve. Two layers of 5/8 drywall will do it .... and the layers need not be on the same side. That's why you often find garages with drywall only on the 'house' side, and a double layer on the ceiling (when there are rooms above the garage).

In a duplex building, the two garages usually do NOT need a 1 hr wall between them, as long as the walls between the garages and the units qualify. There are actually some duplexes where there is no wall between the two parts of the garage.

Otherwise, in the industry's standard fire test of wall assemblies. penetrations do matter. That's why you're supposed to place the boxes for either side in different stud bays. (Code language is actually 24" apart). The dividing line for size is 16 sq. inches .... leading to some debate as to whether your typical 4-square box requires you to use the putty pads. (Generally, the answer is 'yes.')

Fiberglass insulation may not burn very well, but it does nothing for the fire rating of a wall assembly. Let's not confuse the rating of the wall assembly with simple draft stopping.

What is going in the 2x4 box mounted on the bottom of the disconnect box?

Larry C

If there are bedrooms above the garage, all structural walls must be firestopped, even the exterior ones, to prevent structural failure.

Also, properly packed fiberglass insulation is an approved firestop per IRC:

Proper insulation is required in IBC for the fire rating of walls, too, but I believe it's more for thermal insulation purposes. IBC is pretty specific about it in the one table. Also, fiberglass does not burn. It's glass! It's rated to 1000F, also. The ill-conceived tuft-test that's always referenced is bogus; repeat the experiment with a full batt and you'll see that the lighter does nothing but leave a little carbon residue.

Thanks for the clarification Steve.

Steve ... you're continuing to mix apples with oranges. Firestops and fire rated walls are two entirely different topics.

"Firestopping" is simply closing a cavity. Period. We can discuss different ways this is done - but it has nothing at all to do with how well a wall will perform preventing a fire from passing through the wall - either directly, or by getting hot enough to ignite what's on the other side.

Fiberglass doesn't burn? While is is usually classed as 'non combustible' in surface burning tests, I assure you I can light a piece with a torch. I can also make steel wool burn vigorously. But, we're talking about 'fire walls' here, not parlor tricks.

I doubt the IRC, or any other code, would require a particular wall construction. I would expect them to want you to use a 'rated assembly.' That is, assemblies that have been subjected to full scale, industry standard, fire testing.
UL publishedsa 'fire resistance directory' that is one of the more common atlases of rated designs. There are others, as well. A review of many different designs, comparing the same design with fiberglass batts to one without, shows absolutely no difference in the rating achieved. Insulate if you will, but don't do it to achieve greater fire resistance!

Access to the Ufer.

The 2x4 box I am refering to has a cover on it, and is visible in the rear view of the building disconnect panel. I don't see any rebar coming up thru the foundation. I thought it might be for a convience outlet but I didn't see any location for the circuit breaker in the Service Entrance.

Larry C

It's been set up for temp power, the box you are asking about is a GFCI receptacle, the rebar is behind that former 2 gang "box".

Panels next to each other.
Is that the fire seperation wall between the two units ?
Junk wiring.

The 2nd unit is upstairs above the garages.

Update, they are insulating, hanging drywall, and lathing for stucco,and the whole mess is still there even the 10/2 NM dryer feed.

How much $$$ did they pay that inspector, or was he just oblivious to everything?

Ian A.

Ian, I'd not be too hasty in judging the inspector.

It's a fact of life that, when a builder puts up a development, inspectors are not about to closely examine every detail of every house. It's far more likely that they will carry out 'spot checks' on a few houses, then sign off on all of them.

Whether this is right or wrong is not really the issue. There is an entire doctrine of quality control ("Statistical Quality Management") based on this principle. Whether such a program was actually administered, with all the necessary procedures, is unknown.

What IS known, according to the OP, is that this particular house was clearly made by a different crew than the other homes in the tract. One bad employee can cause all manner of troubles.

Naturally - regardless of the inspection being passed - there are numerous folks who should have said "there's something wrong here!"

Ah I got it now. Thanks for the info John, I'll remember it for the next one.

Ian A.

The framing inspectors here don't even want to look at a house until the roof, siding, doors, windows and insulation are on. I asked him once how he checked to make sure we used the right hurricane straps, sheathing and nailing schedule... or worse, what would happen if he found a structural violation that required a wall section to be rebuilt, but he was completely unconcerned.

If I was a dishonest contractor, I could really exploit that.

God I hate residential work.

This unit has been completed and rented out since this was posted, even a "twin" dulpex has been completed (but wired by a EC).With inspections such as these, there is little value to them ,IMO.