ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Motion detectors and dimmers
by gfretwell. 09/20/18 04:02 PM
Extension cords
by annemarie1. 09/20/18 08:54 AM
Inspection camera help
by Bill Addiss. 09/19/18 10:50 PM
220/230/240V 60Hz Systems
by gfretwell. 09/16/18 12:37 PM
Acronis Backup 2017
by gfretwell. 09/16/18 12:46 AM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 24 guests, and 26 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
dimmer on transformer #176309
03/29/08 10:30 AM
03/29/08 10:30 AM
K
KJ  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 52
need a quick and simple answer for the question i found posted on another website

'Why a dimmer preferred to be used on primary side of transformer?'


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: dimmer on transformer [Re: KJ] #176313
03/29/08 12:17 PM
03/29/08 12:17 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,289
Estero,Fl,usa
Maybe just because it is easier to find 120v dimmers? I know I have one feeding a transformer for 12v string of lights and it seems to work fine.


Greg Fretwell
Re: dimmer on transformer [Re: gfretwell] #176318
03/29/08 03:08 PM
03/29/08 03:08 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Just a wild guess ... but think for a moment ... how does a dimmer work? Usually by letting only part of the sine wave through. Where does the rest go? Back into the grid.

Would the unused part of the wave cause additional heating, or other problems, inside the transformer?

IMO, dimmers and transformers are a problem looking for a place to happen.
If you're controlling a resistance type load - incandescent lights and heaters - then perhaps an autotransformer is what you really want.
If you're controlling a motor, then a VFD is called for.

If it's a DC load, then control it AFTER the DC is created. Just my thoughts.

Re: dimmer on transformer [Re: renosteinke] #176319
03/29/08 03:46 PM
03/29/08 03:46 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,289
Estero,Fl,usa
Actually a dimmer simply chops the sine wave at a certain point. The unused part of the wave is simply unused. It doesn't go anywhere any more than the power hitting an open switch goes anywhere,
Chopping up DC is harder than AC and you certainly don't want resistive control if wasting energy is a concern to you.

I haven't seen any issues with having a dimmer in front of a Malibu transformer


Greg Fretwell
Re: dimmer on transformer [Re: gfretwell] #176325
03/29/08 04:58 PM
03/29/08 04:58 PM
S
sparkyinak  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
Alaska
Just a FYI, a solid state dimmer cops the sine wave. A reostat is jusr a glorified adjustible risistor. Using a solid state dimmer may cause adnormal operation.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Re: dimmer on transformer [Re: gfretwell] #176327
03/29/08 06:07 PM
03/29/08 06:07 PM
K
KJ  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 52
Maybe just because it is easier to find 120v dimmers? I know I have one feeding

a transformer for 12v string of lights and it seems to work fine.



ok, i like this answer, but im looking for more technical, amperagevoltage related info.any thoughts -----
preferably in laymans terms....

Re: dimmer on transformer [Re: sparkyinak] #176328
03/29/08 06:09 PM
03/29/08 06:09 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,289
Estero,Fl,usa
Why? A transformer will simply smooth out the spikes and give you an average voltage out. There is nothing uglier than the output of the chopper in a switching power supply and they feed that into a transformer.
I guess I could take a scope to the one I am using and see what the waves really look like in and out. You might get some strange results going into an unregulated supply feeding a radio or audio amp but if this is just going to feed LV incandescent lights I don't see the issue.


Greg Fretwell
Re: dimmer on transformer [Re: gfretwell] #176353
03/29/08 11:22 PM
03/29/08 11:22 PM
T
twh  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
Regina, Sask.
Here's my guess: A dimmer is an electronic device that has a voltage drop of maybe 2 volts. On a 12 volt circuit, the max voltage left for the bulbs is 10 volts, or about 90 percent. The same 2 volt drop on a 120 volt circuit leaves 118 volts for the bulbs, or about 98 percent. On a 12 volt circuit the lights would be dimmer.

Re: dimmer on transformer [Re: KJ] #176360
03/30/08 10:27 AM
03/30/08 10:27 AM
A
andyenglish  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 19
CANADA
These 12V lights are typically 50W. If you have only 3 lights you have 150W. On the primary side at 120V, the dimmer has to deal with just over 1A (including the transformer). On the secondary side at 12V, I would guess there's going to be more current than the dimmer can handle.

Andy


It's always easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission.
Re: dimmer on transformer [Re: andyenglish] #176369
03/30/08 12:47 PM
03/30/08 12:47 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,289
Estero,Fl,usa
Andy and TW may be on to something. Although the current itself might not be a problem (a 50a device is not that more expensive than a 5a one) the power dissipation will be.
The output triac will drop ~.7v (silicon device). Since power is amps times volts and the .7 volt dropped in the triac is fixed, doing this on the 12v side will mean the device has to shed 10 times what it would on the 120v side for the same light output.
I am still curious about what these wave forms look like. When the mob of kids and grandkids go home I will take a look.


Greg Fretwell
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Admin
Admin
NY, USA
Posts: 3,516
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 13
Trumpy 11
sparky 7
Popular Topics(Views)
249,342 Are you busy
187,275 Re: Forum
176,630 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.026s Queries: 16 (0.005s) Memory: 1.0266 MB (Peak: 1.2089 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-09-21 16:03:07 UTC