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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 29
G
Junior Member
Landlords.

Two notches below a lawyer.

In my early days I contracted a simple exterior security light insatll for a landlord prop.

I verified location and all specs prior.

This shister calls me and says diffrent after Im done.

I go ballistic and he apoligises and agree to pay. Later he calls me and says no he will not pay.

I spent $12 for a court date ,small claims.

The idiot brings pictures of my work to the judge for inspection. He changes his story about a lag bolt not being "right".

Judge sees thru his BS and orders him to a bank or ATM and bring back CASH to pay me.

30 minutews later he retutrns as ordered and I go home with money for work served.

I would call that a service call horror but a battle won.


Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,923
Likes: 32
G
Member
I was working in one of our big glass house government computer centers in DC (4 water cooled systems, national network of users). We had a new 60a 3p Russell Stoll that was phased wrong. This customer insisted that we not change our equipment, they wanted everything phased the same at the plug so they called the GSA "electrician/handyman". He dragged himself in there several hours later. He looked at the wiring in the panel and all the colors lined up so he said it must be wrong in the plug. We asked if he knew what to do and he said "sure, just swap two of them". We went back to what we were doing and let him work. After a while he said we were ready. He matter of factly flipped the breaker and fire shot out, smoke and such. The whole room went black and the emergency lights came on along with several alarms. They managed to abort the Halon and get the alarms reset while he went downstairs "to check the main". In about 20 minutes (not bad for government work) the lights came back and the systems started powering up. Operators on all the consoles were furiously trying to get all the systems back up. Everything seemed to be working except the stuff on that 400a panel where the fault was. Mr happy showed up with a cup of coffee about 20 minutes later and asked how it was going. The data center manager was hollering about the 10 boxes that didn't come up and Mr H walks over and says, "No Problem it's just the 400a breaker tripped". He flips it. Boom! Fire smoke and darkness. By now we decided we better jump in there while he was on his quest, so I started working the original 60a breaker back and forth until I broke loose the welded contacts taped it open with a do not operate tag and flipped the 400 back on. In a few minutes the power came back on and we had everything but the original 60a going. They started IPL'ing again and Mr happy shows up again feeling very proud of himself that everything is working. I told him about the bad breaker and he says he had never seen anything like that before. The DC manager was still steaming watching this all transpire. When the handyman reached up to flip the 60a because he didn't believe me they tackled him and dragged him out!
The next morning when the real electrician showed up, we found the guy had swapped one phase with the EGC!
I am still not sure why this also tripped the main but I am guessing they were probably at about 99.8% of the rating.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 49
A
ausador Offline OP
Member
On the matter of getting paid....well that has always been problematic with service calls hasn't it? I remember doing a large scale renovation/addition around 1985 for a specialist doctor and his wife. The guy a good seven figure income and nothing was too good for his early vintage "Mc. Mansion".

Right from the start of this job it became apparent to me that there would be some dispute at the end. The plans I had bid were altered and revised daily to the point of absurdity. The local AHJ knowing me and being a good sport allowed this nonsense to continue until the revised feild drawings had departed so far from the engineered ones that he finally had to put his foot down.

At each step I felt I had protected myself by writing out laboriously worded change orders and getting either the doc or his wife to sign them. I had to have the GC tear open the soffit above the kitchen cabinets twice so that more circuits could be routed thru it. (The wife had me install a bank of switches in the kitchen so that she could control...the front drive lights, garage lights, outside entry lights, foyer lights, foyer stair lights, dimming dining lights, kitchen lights, back deck lights, back yard security lights, back yard garden lights, pool deck lights, pool lights, and the newly added "Night light" sconces on both the first and second floors.)

My original bid was a mere $1800 because I was doing the work myself and the scope was a few wiring additions to the existing house and tearing off the garage roof and adding a second floor to it with two beds and a bath.(remember this is in 1985 dollars)

Really I took it as a "filler" a job that would drag on for months and not require my presence that much, but that would maybe result in some word of mouth referrals and additional work. (so much for wishful thinking).

The AHJ decided that a service upgrade was required after about half the revisions so I duly paid for the engineering and resubmitted the drawings. (after getting a signed change order)

My "filler" job had turned into something that had consumed my every spare waking minute for five months and I was ecstatic when the final inspection passed without a hitch. Because of the size of the original contract I had not requested nor recieved any completion milestone payments and the entire cost of this project had come from my own pocket so far.

With my copy of the final in hand I entered the home and presented my bill to the owner along with copies of all the changes and thier estimated cost. The total bill was still a more than reasonable sum, just over $9000.00. My profit on this computed sum was negligible to say the least, again I was still hoping for some positive word of mouth and future high dollar jobs with the doc and his friends. (yes...sigh...I know that was stupid I have learned better since then.)

The doc goes through my bill item by item without one word and then cuts me a check for exactly $4500.00 stateing "thats what I think the job is worth, now you can leave my premises." It takes me about 30 seconds to actually catch on that he is absolutely serious. "But you agreed to the costs on the change orders!" I stammer half coherently. "You and I both know that you only used those changes to inflate the cost of this job well beyond it's real costs" he replies seriously. "But I did about five times the wireing in the original bid and had to pay an engineer....plus replace the service....I'm hardly making anything on this job...." finally stuttering into silence I look at him expecting him to acknowledge the logic of my argument. He laughs and then says "come on I know how this works, if your billing $9000.00 then your costs were probably less than three, you can't expect to get rich just because your doing a job for someone like me."

Now the slow fuse in my brain has finally sputtered into life and an explosion is imminent....there are just too many things here to say to decide on one.

1. Five months of time...usually with six to seven calls to be answered per week?.....

2. Going back to the engineer and getting revised drawings includeing a new service oneline and load calc?....

3. Over 200 hours of my time by my best guess both on and off the site?....

4. Dealing with his ditzy wife and her ever growing switch bank....

5. He "knows how this works" meaning that I am a lieing cheating coniveing scammer and not a proffessional trying my best to give best value for the money.

6. I'm going to "get rich" by billing him $9000.00 WTF?....

7. "Someone like me" Well that says it all doesn't it...he imagines himself as Bill Gates or Warren Buffet apparently...as if I care or had changed my billing in his case other than to lower it as explained earlier.

I look down and realize that my hands are trembling, I am seriously scared that I will do something here that might momentarily feel good but that I will regret for a long time to come. Nodding to him I turn and exit the house...I don't trust myself to say anything....it can and probably will be used against me in future court proceedings....I leave his insulting check in his hand....

I make it to my van without committing any acts of mayhem and breath deeply and count to ten several times. On a sudden urge I call a friend who has been at this much longer than I. I explain the situation and am literally crying with frustration as I finish...I don't have months to recover the sum in small claims my financial situation is quite perilous at the time. "You put in a outdoor service?" my friend asks. "Yes a new 200amp" I answer. "Take it down"...."what?"...."Take it down, put it in your van and drive away".

Suddenly the sun is shining again and I begin to feel better...I understand the difference between civil and criminal...hmmm...this might just work!

Ten minutes later I am on an extension ladder against the side of the customers house humming merrily to myself as I use my cable cutters to cut the second ungrounded leg to the house. I am in the process of pulling the meter when the doc appears from the garage side door. "What are you doing??!!" he shouts in my general direction. In return I give him a big smile and a nod while laying the meter on the ground out of the way. "You can't do this, I'm calling the cops! Again I smile and nod to him and then begin removeing the new metermain from the side of the house and the riser.....

The hub is disattached, all conductors loose, grounding electrode conductor pulled out, and the last PITA toggle coming loose from the wall when the police officer showsup. "What are you doing?" says the police officer who is all of about 24 and probably doesn't shave more than twice a week. "I'm repossesing my property" I grunt at him as The last toggle comes free and the meter main come loose from the wall. "Thats theft" says the uninformed officer "we can arrest you if you don't put that back". "Uhhh actually I don't think you can legally"I reply still standing stock still so as not to give any excuse for the drawing of weapons.

I am standing in the side yard, a metermain clucthed to my chest hopeing it can stop bullets just in case....when Mr. doc comes out of his side door again...."Thats the one officer" he shouts..."he shut off my electric and now he is trying to steal my meter so I can't get it back." The officer looks at me expectently waiting for whatever tale might be forthcoming but I have no desire to give him one....I have said enough.

The officer frowns noticibly and then walks away to talk on his radio in private. I lay the metermain on the ground and turn to the homeowner. "I can have this back and working in an hour or so...if you'll pay me" "Hah!..blackmail won't work on me, there are dozens of contractors, your going to jail and I'll have power back in a hour or two" he replies confidently. "Ok" I say passively and then wait for the officer.

Soon enough the officer returns and spends some time trying to explain to the hime owner that this is a civil matter and not a criminal one....I confess I missed most of this lecture because I was carrying my tools and the metermain to my van....

almost exactly one hour later while looking at another call and checking my messages there is a message to call the home owner in question. I do so and recieve the news that he will pay me in full if I will restore his service with a bit of salt.

I drive to his home, insist that he give me a check for the full amount plus $125.00 for re-installation of the metermain, and then refuse to do the said job until I have driven to his bank and the check has cleared. During the conversation I remember saying saying something along the lines of "your just the type of jerk that would hand me a check and then put a stop order on it and I'm not taking any chances." The look on his face instantly told me that he had planned on doing that exact thing.

40 minutes later with his cash burning a hole in my pocket I re-installed his metermain and re-connected the drop. The utility later fined me $300.00 for cutting thier seal without authorization,(guess who started that?), but I got it waived once the entire matter had been discussed with them.

ANYWAY.....the moral to this story is simple if counterintuitive...it has been my experience that simple people no matter how poor will always pay if you treat them fairly and honestly. Even if this is a hugh expense out of the blue(thier service burning up)they will try thier best to pay. Poor people often even try to tip you for the work you done especially if it involves the crawl space or attic.

Rich people got that way by being complete...err...well you know....
No matter how fair you try to be they will think you are one of them and try to tell you that you are robbing them. It will never ever in a thousand million years occur to them that they could tip you for good fast clean service.

I accepted a couple of tips as an apprentice and then realized that the only ones who did it were the ones who could least afford it....I learned the art of diplomatic refusal after that.












Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 23
H
Member
Ausador,

There was a story similar to yours in this area a while back. A contractor installed a new service in a commercial building, was not paid, uninstalled the service, was sued by the owner, was ordered to reinstall said service.

Once the equipment was installed it became the property of the building. The contractor had to reinstall at his own expense.

Now, an electrician I worked with years ago did a lot of work for an attorney. At the end of the project he presented his bill and was issued a check for half the amount. The lawyer said, "This is what I think the project should have cost."

Ok, my friend soon finds out the lawyer is having a big "come see my house" party. While the party was in full swing my friend yanked the meter and ran. Good luck getting ConEd to come to your house on a moments notice.

Party ended early....

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 29
G
Junior Member
(ausador) -

Your post brings back bad memmories of a time when I did alot of retail chains in malls, etc.

But before I begin with that, I have to completly agree with you about poor people and those SOB's who are rich. Ive had old lady's reaching for their check books before I was even done with the job. And then leave me in there home while they went away to do errands. Now here is one job similar to yours. Man was it painful, but like you, I went for the jugular and made them ever so sorry for FMO.

I bid a Pier One Imports back in the 90's. It was a $6500.00 refit. When the GC Supt. showed up late, and then said, "I dont even want to be here, I want to do Target stores", a limit switch was acctuated in my head and I knew then and there that this job was no good.

It would have been much better if I had just walked away.

Right from the start this idiot was F-ing everything up. It took him THREE weeks to get some FRAMING started in the store room area. Like you I was boiling and I confronted him in that state of mind. He looked me in the eye and when he saw my wrath he blurts out, "alright by I want it roughed right away"

Gee, ya think. This same moronic behavior by this desease of a Supt wannabe carries thru the entire project. He;s got other trades SCREAMING at him. A total cluster for all subs.

No here comes MY STUPID PART!. In walks an "agent/rep for Pier One. He has the Supt from hell at his side and they start dreaming and ordering extras, I write everything down and request AWA,s. They both wave me off and say "No we dont need to do that, just do the work. Second limit switch acctuates.

Well when your in the middle without any progress payment, for time served it is PRESSURE. I agree to do the work and order materials and provide labor for all extras which cost me an additional $8500.00. Check that figure against the original scope.

I call the PM who is alays someone out of state. I request some money and we end up in a fight. He then sends me [$6500.00] HMMM, sound familiar. the "doc and his bimbo wife"

Now comes the pain, I do all the extra work, we are 99.9% complete. Just two exterior lights on the columns at the store front. BUT the masons are still working on them AND they have to be painted. I ask the Supt as to when they will be ready. He says he doesnt know for sure and that he will call me. I agree and leave the site,

Later that afternoon I receive a call fromt the PM who demands that I have the lights mounted by 5PM. I explain that masons are still mudding the columns and that paint is scheduled first and that the boxes for the fixtures are not even finnished flush with trim material.

He threatens me and then a third limit switch acctuates. I know that they are setting me up. I and my men drive back to the job and masons are on scaffolding working on said columns.

We walked in and grabbed are tools and ladders , loaded up and drove away. When I got back to my office I called the owner of the GC and told him what was going on. He promised me that he would get his PM out of my way and let us finnish our work after the masons and painters are done. That same stupid ass loser PM calls me back and demands that I go to the jobsite and install the lights by 5PM.

I informed him that he was on his own and SLAMMED the phone down in his ear. Later I found out they had paving on the parking lot and that the opening date was still two weeks away from what they had told me.

During those two weeks the GC could not find any EC in my area to bail him out. They had to go over two countys to find "someone" to mount two lights. I had already got the GC a final CO before the "set up"

I hire a lawyer for $200.00 who files a lean on the property. All hell breaks loose. The property owner and Pier One are going ballistic. This is after I refuse to sign a waiver for the GC so he can get his final 10% of the $500,000 project. OH YEAH! now Im feeling good. Payback.

Two years of court and arbritation later I walk into my lawyers office and tell the girl that I WILL BE SEEN TODAY. An hour later after my pacing in front of his other clients I was cut a check for $2000.00 for doing $8500.00 worth of extras.

Trust no one except folks and poor people for money. Realtors, lawyers, landlords and GC's and rich people are scum do do work for along with retail chains. When your in the game you gotta be mean. I got much better at that game but I sure got kicked around some before hand. Such is the life of an EC. Ive got many more successes than these few horror stories, but thaty is what this OP is about. And has been said by others here besides me, if your in a pinch for money, then these things become nightmares.

Bottom line? This same DA GC kept sending me faxes and asking me to bid more jobs. Why? He was unable to cash in on the west Michigan commercial/retail construction boom that continues to this day. He couldnt find anyone to bid his work. The word was out on him.

My lawyer told me that this GC had "whined" to a judge that had already spent over $25000.00 in legal fees. They were ordered to pay me/my lawyer $4500.00 at arbritation. Well thats $30,000.00 plus the lost revenue future work in my area. Which could have been in the millions of dollars.

This job was probably my worst horror story.

But by God, they sure had hell to pay in the end, for screwing me out of $8500.00.

FK-M













Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
E
Member
See, we could never get away with anything like you guys have described. We have rights of repossession laws here in Virginia. The minute that you so much as install a wire nut, it's up to a judge to determine whether or not you should be paid for it. There's no gray area there whatsoever.

Ausador, I loved your story and Lord knows, we've all been in a similar situation. I do have to say, and I mean this in the most brotherly way: Anything written must include proper spelling, grammar and punctuation. If any of these are absent, the customer is going to assume that you are an imbecile and treat you accordingly. Right or wrong, being articulate is imperative in this day and age.

Doctors, lawyers, mayors, you name it. The minute that they feel that they are smarter than you are, you have lost your position with them. Maybe they did go to college for five+ years, but that doesn't mean that you lack the same common sense that everyone should have. I know that it was a long time ago, but the song remains the same.


Last edited by EV607797; 12/11/07 09:25 PM. Reason: Misspelled Virginia. Yikes!

---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 49
A
ausador Offline OP
Member
EV607797....I doubt the rules are much different here than there...the point is that it is civil law and the cops can't do a thing about it. Then we get into the "possesion is 9/10ths of the law" thingie....etc.

The police cannot and will not stop you in the situation I related above. It is a matter for a civil court and not any type of criminal infraction. In this case the owner realized that he had signed change orders agreeing to the increase in fees beyond my bid. Since I passed my final inspection without a singal write-up or notation he had no means to claim poor work performance or malfeasance.

Indeed I had notes from both him and his wife saved from during the job praising my on-time performance and coordination with the other trades on their installations and the likely savings this had meant for them.

He knew he would lose in court and have to pay both his own and then my legal expenses....

Anyway....I was not in the least worried when I pulled his service...nor should I have been given current laws and the evidence.

Please don't mistake my choice to let a few typo's on a website go rather than correcting them for stupidity either here or in dealing with customers. I trust you will find that my communication skills are more than adequate when they need to be.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 337
S
Member
Thank you Ausador for the story. Your communication skills had my heart beating in anger over your well told story. Thanks for the ending comnments on tipping. That part made me feel good inside for in finishing my basement I tipped the sheet rockers $50 a piece, and when I caught the plumber on the phone complaining to his supplier that he was not getting paid what he thought he should because there was no mark up for him on the shower, though I had already paid him in full our agreed upon price, I pulled out my checkbook right then and asked how much more he needed, and paid what he asked.

My Brother-In-Law who does not believe in drinking alcohol told me afterwards, "if you want a good job buy the crew a case of beer" (he had done the same on his house addition).

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
E
Member
It is a very good story for sure. It's a shame that people feel that they can treat contractors the way that they do. I know that it happened over twenty years ago, but if you are anything like me, your blood still boils whenever you think about it. I guess it's a good thing that you've moved on, but I don't blame you for harboring resentment. It just shows that you are a better man than he.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,923
Likes: 32
G
Member
I got accused of polluting the labor market when I tipped the Mexicans who helped me clean up after Hurricane Charley. ($100 each)
It seemed like a bargain to me when I compared it to what my other neighbors paid for a "tree service".


Greg Fretwell
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