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410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" #170504 11/04/07 06:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Redsy Offline OP
Member
Where do we get a requirement to independently support lay-in luminaires? Local rules?

Sometimes I see it, sometimes I don't.

Thanks,

John

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: Redsy] #170508 11/04/07 06:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,218
HotLine1 Offline
Member
Redsy:
A 'plain english' explanation....

NEC requires fixtures to be 'attached' to the grid, by mechanical means; screws, clips, rivets, etc. in most cases. This is the 'basic' NEC requirement...this is what an Electrical Inspector can enforce, but....

Ind. support is required in seismic areas.

Ind. support MAY be required by plans/specs.

Ind. support IS required in certain 'Fire Rated' ceiling assemblies (I have never seen one)

And; a 'COMMON SENSE' rule would be IF the fixture deflects the grid....install support!.

Who the enforcement falls upon...Electric Insp for NEC and Plans/Specs.; Building or Fire for seismic; Fire/Building for 'fire rated' assembly. (My understanding of the NJ UCC)

The 'common sense' rule.....enforcement??



John
Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: Redsy] #170512 11/04/07 08:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
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Redsy Offline OP
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Thanks John!

I'm bidding a "Family Dollar" store in Camden.
The specs are "cookie cutter" for each store. They require 8' fixtures, surface mounted on a drop ceiling. (I know I mentioned troffers in my original post, but I believe the question still pertains.)
I'm looking at Caddy "4G" series fixture mounts and wonder if additional support would be required.

http://www.erico.com/products/CADDYcfcTwistOnFixSprt.asp

Last edited by Redsy; 11/04/07 08:15 PM.
Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: Redsy] #170526 11/05/07 07:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,218
HotLine1 Offline
Member
John:
IMHO, the 'common sense' aproach should be used. Back in time..8' channels were heavy, made of real metal, and had heavier mag ballasts, so...additional support was required.

What do the plans/spec indicate; if anything. Also, I (IMHO) would check out the grid. Some 'new' grid is pretty flimsy, and how much support is on the grid itself?

I have negotiated 'extra' ceiling wire from the ceiling contractor; it was a worthwile $$$ spent.

Check out Caddy 'IDS' items Independent Support Clips.



John
Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: HotLine1] #170528 11/05/07 08:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,286
electure Offline
Member
HotLine,

We'll have to make you an official "California Guy". crazy

Out here in Seismic Area 4, we use the Caddy IDS hangers that you recommend for just such an application.

http://www.erico.com/products/CADDYcfcIndSprtClps.asp

They're of extra value when the layout of the fixtures, lighting track, etc. don't fall right on a main runner of the grid. The cross tees are comparatively weak and the IDS support clips can provide the support for the fixtures no matter what the layout.

Usually the GC will have the ceiling contractor shoot the additional support wires and seismic splay wires. If not, a case of beer or 2 to the ceiling guy seems to do the trick

smile

Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: HotLine1] #170529 11/05/07 08:50 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 984
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ghost307 Offline
Member
I like the 'extra' ceiling wire idea.

I worked at an industrial plant outside Chicago and one of the processes was carried out in a room that had 2x4 troffers and a suspended ceiling. The process was apparently corrosive to the ceiling wires, because 1 day the whole grid let loose and dropped tiles on everybody.

The troffers stayed hanging by their small safety chains. If not for that little bit of extra protection, I'm sure that someone would have gotten a fixture dropped on their head that day.


Ghost307
Re: 410.16 (C) vs. "independent support" [Re: ghost307] #170539 11/05/07 01:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,218
HotLine1 Offline
Member
Electure:
Thank you for the honor of being a Calif. guy. I spent a little shy of three weeks from SF to San Diego quite a few years ago, and really would like to get back! This time SF north to ???




John

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