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#169023 - 09/23/07 07:58 PM A good security system  
gerard costa  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10
Waterford, Connecticut
I'm getting alot of customers asking me if i install security alarm systems and I'm turning away alot of work. Are there any EC out there that have a system that they can carry thats reputable. I'm dealing with alot of homeowners looking for both protection from burglary and older folks looking for monitored medical devices.


Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:

#169025 - 09/23/07 08:03 PM Re: A good security system [Re: gerard costa]  
macmikeman  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
Ademco is good stuff, FBI is good stuff, there are others. But what is really a good idea is to get some proper training in that first before jumping right in.
It is not rocket science, but there are many legal angles to watch out for and blind attempts to add this as a revenue source can land you in legal problems. Also knowing which options are good options to program into each system is something you cannot pick up on your own, unless you like learning from the school of hard knocks.


#169030 - 09/23/07 08:36 PM Re: A good security system [Re: macmikeman]  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
Mac,

The FBI alarm panels are the bottom of the pile, they are not UL approved panels, usually used on DIY installs, or where UL install is not an issue.

As you noted, he best look into alarm liability insurance, first, and then understand that alarm work is not install work, your are married to the job unlike electrical work, and most states require, licenses and bonding for alarm work, plus background checks,


#169032 - 09/23/07 09:11 PM Re: A good security system [Re: LK]  
macmikeman  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
Les, here is the UL listing for the FBI XlCPRO system panel I have in my house.
FBI was purchased by Honeywell and renamed Omni series. I think the XLC is now the OMNI848 if I am not mistaken. I found installing and monitoring alarm systems to be quite lucrative for eventual selloff of the accounts to a national chain, but the day to day dealings with that business is not my particular cup of tea. ADEMCO, DBA HONEYWELL INTERNATIONAL INC S1598
165 EILEEN WAY
PO BOX 9035
SYOSSET, NY 11791 USA
Control unit accessories for XL Series: Model 671 indoor horn, either 679.

Made for installation by experienced alarm installers only.



Combination control unit:

Combination control unit: Models XL4C, XL4CPO for use with other separately Listed accessories as indicated in the manufacturer's installation and operating instructions.


Control unit accessories: Models XK-3LC, 7005 LCD keypads.

Control unit accessories:Models XL-4800LCD, XL-4800LED keypads intended for use with XL-4612, XL-4613, XL-4800EX, XL-4805EZ controls.

Control unit accessory:Model 4208 remote point module.

Control unit accessories:Models XK-2LC, XK-4LC, XK-206 LED, XK-406, XL-4600LCDP, XL-6615, XL-6805 keypads for use with the XL-4600DL, Legend 70 Model 6700, Legend 80 Model 6800 control units.


Control unit accessories:Models XL-4612RM keypad, XL-4612TC trigger cable, RES1K resistor pack.


Control unit subassemblies:Models 7120, 7126 polling loop adaptors intended for use with 7125, 7125B, XL4, -4B, -5, -5B control units.

Combination control unit accessory:Model SD-2702 DCID Transponder with or without Models SD-2708, XL-4702F Remote point accessories.



Control unit accessories:Models XL4702, -4708 polling loop devices, suitable for use with the manufacturer's Listed XL4, -5 series control units.

Control units: , Models XL-31 and XL-31B household fire and Grade A burglary warning system control unit.

Control unit accessories: Model XL4612M keypad, Models XL4612TR and RES1K cable assemblies.





#169033 - 09/23/07 09:36 PM Re: A good security system [Re: macmikeman]  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
I checked the UL white book, and the FBI panel was never a UL listed control panel, Honywell, ended up with old moose panels, and ademco pittmay products, not many independent panel companies left. the RMA is what the business is all along about with maint contracts, yup a lot too it.


#169034 - 09/23/07 09:36 PM Re: A good security system [Re: macmikeman]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Just a fine detail to note here ....

There is a world of difference between a "UL alarm system" and a system made from UL listed components.

For a listed system, UL will evaluate the installation, including things like police response time. The contractor will be subject to a UL inspection program. UL will periodically comeout and test the system.


#169038 - 09/24/07 01:52 AM Re: A good security system [Re: LK]  
macmikeman  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
Originally Posted by LK
I checked the UL white book, and the FBI panel was never a UL listed control panel, Honywell, ended up with old moose panels, and ademco pittmay products, not many independent panel companies left. the RMA is what the business is all along about with maint contracts, yup a lot too it.


Here is the Honeywell link. Take a look at the UL sticker under the picture of the panel. Reno is correct about a listed system vs a panel with a listing on it. That is part of what I was trying to let the OP know about before he invests time and energy getting into something that takes a bit of training. Not that I am saying not to get involved, just to research, and get trained in it first. Honeywell


#169042 - 09/24/07 09:15 AM Re: A good security system [Re: macmikeman]  
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
Originally Posted by macmikeman
Originally Posted by LK
I checked the UL white book, and the FBI panel was never a UL listed control panel, Honywell, ended up with old moose panels, and ademco pittmay products, not many independent panel companies left. the RMA is what the business is all along about with maint contracts, yup a lot too it.


Here is the Honeywell link. Take a look at the UL sticker under the picture of the panel. Reno is correct about a listed system vs a panel with a listing on it. That is part of what I was trying to let the OP know about before he invests time and energy getting into something that takes a bit of training. Not that I am saying not to get involved, just to research, and get trained in it first. Honeywell


yup he has a lot to learn, listing a system is more involved then installing a system, but advice on training first.


#169098 - 09/25/07 11:31 AM Re: A good security system [Re: gerard costa]  
DougW  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
North Chicago, IL
Remember - depending on your AHJ / County / State, you may have to have a separate license to install alarm systems, with different permits for burglar v. fire.

Here in IL, it's similar steps as getting a Private Investigator's license, complete with bonding and background checks.

Illinois Statutes for Private Alarm Companaies and Installers

Quote
(225 ILCS 447/20‑10)
(Section scheduled to be repealed on January 1, 2014)
Sec. 20‑10. Qualifications for licensure as a private alarm contractor.
(a) A person is qualified for licensure as a private alarm contractor if he or she meets all of the following requirements:
(1) Is at least 21 years of age.
(2) Has not been convicted of any felony in any
jurisdiction or at least 10 years have elapsed since the time of full discharge from a sentence imposed for a felony conviction.
(3) Is of good moral character. Good moral character is a continuing requirement of licensure. Conviction of crimes other than felonies may be used in determining moral character, but shall not constitute an absolute bar to licensure.
(4) Has not been declared by any court of competent jurisdiction to be incompetent by reason of mental or physical defect or disease, unless a court has subsequently declared him or her to be competent.
(5) Is not suffering from dependence on alcohol or from narcotic addiction or dependence.
(6) Has a minimum of 3 years experience of the 5 years immediately preceding application working as a full‑time manager for a licensed private alarm contractor agency or for an entity that designs, sells, installs, services, or monitors alarm systems that, in the judgment of the Board, satisfies the standards of alarm industry competence. An applicant who has received a 4‑year degree or higher in electrical engineering or a related field from a program approved by the Board shall be given credit for 2 years of the required experience. An applicant who has successfully completed a national certification program approved by the Board shall be given credit for one year of the required experience.
(7) Has not been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces of the United States.
(8) Has passed an examination authorized by the
Department.
(9) Submits his or her fingerprints, proof of having general liability insurance required under subsection (c), and the required license fee.
(10) Has not violated Section 10‑5 of this Act.


Here's a small exemption:

Quote
(a) The provisions of this Act related to the licensure of private alarm contractors do not apply to any of the following:
(3) A licensed electrical contractor who repairs or services fire alarm systems on an emergency call‑in basis or who sells, installs, maintains, alters, repairs, or services only fire alarm systems and not alarm or other security related electronic systems.



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