ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area How to become a journeyman electrician?

Oh, working on my home isn't in question, I'm allowed to, and did all the trades myself when I put on that 2000 square foot addition- electrical, plumbing, HVAC, carpentry, cabinetry, etc. Everything but charging the AC, which requires an EPA license.

I want to be able to do commercial electrical work, though, which requires a license. I was hoping my hands-on experience wiring my addition, and my commercial experience as an engineer would suffice for VA's requirement and allow me to sit for the Journeyman test. I took a few modules of the practice exam on Mike Holt's page and am confident I could pass the test if I sat for it. I'm also a licensed PE, btw.

You may be able to sit for the Va contractors test based on your degree. That is state or local law.

BTW the "EPA freon license" is only money and a very simple test you can take online. You really only need the license to buy freon (R12/R22). Newer "safe" refrigerants are exempt. In fact they are selling precharged mini-splits with "Puron" clones on the internet and through local industrial supply companies to anyone with the money. They sell R134 at the drug store.

It was R22. Ironically, I bought the R22 myself in a precharged 2.5 ton unit, sans license. I know the test is a joke, but I haven't had a chance to take it yet. Figured this way, I'd let a pro solder the copper anyhow- I'm not terribly good at sweating pipe; we did the plumbing ourselves, but it's one thing if a copper pipe joint sweats a little water- quite another to lose all that freon.

VA only requires 1 year experience if you have a 4-year degree, but doesn't elaborate on what constitutes "experience." I guess the only true way to tell is to call up the state licensing board and ask! Hard part will be convincing my boss to pay the licensing fees

I don't get it. If you want to hump wire and pipe as an engineer, then open your own shop. I'm sure the 'guys' won't lose any respect for you if you want to come out and throw on the tool bags. They might laugh behind your back, but in the end they will respect that you learned a few angles that increased efficiency and reduced headache.

If you just straight out want to crossover to the field, may as well humble up and start at square one. No one is going to like the way you got your journeycard and you will be spending alot of time at home.

I've noticed alot of posts this past few months of people who want to cut corners to get their jcard. There is a sense of entitlement in the air. No community college tech school, navy ship experience, maintenance man experience, fill in the blank, is equivalent to making an electrical installation for an electrical contractor. I have news for people on the outside looking in, being an electrician is something worth working hard and studying for, for four years. Allowing people licenses by cutting corners hurts us and them. Nobody, no matter how mentally able, is capable of making thorough, quality installations in less amount of time, unless its residential, anybody can learn that in 6 months.

Stevenj76 ... I can certainly understand your angst. I've got a fair amount of time in engineering .... before I entered the trade. I think there's a few attitudes floating around that get folks confused. I'd like to restate some basics - not to be insulting, but to clear the air a bit.

First of all, an 'engineer,' electrical or not, is NOT a 'higher rank' in the electrical field than an electrician. Believing so makes as much sense as expecting a book on manners from a "Civil" engineer! Does electrical work and engineering have places where they work together? They sure do. They are related ... but not the same.

The attitude that an 'engineer' is automatically superior to a mere 'tradesman' has its' roots in a very ignorant attitude put forth in our schools: that the trades are for those "not good enough" for college. Balderdash! What folks outside the trades fail to realize is that any journeyman, of any craft, has put as much effort into mastering his trade as anyone else does to finish college. So, as a result, folks seem to expect their other experiences to somehow allow them to 'short cut' their way to a journeyman card.
Let's turn this around: How about a journeyman card automatically allowing you to take the PE test?

As I've said before, words mean things. In a world lacking in standards, the title 'journeyman' represents a concrete accomplishment: the completion of an apprenticeship. As such, that credential is recognized by others who use that trade. There are defined standards that must be met to complete the program.

This is generally not true for related trades; their training is at the whim of their employer .... it may be good, bad, or indifferent. Many times, the training is brand specific, and not directly applicable to other employers. Can the training be relevant to parts of electrical work? Sure .... but how do you quantify it?

Entering a trade is NOT a 'step down.' Heck, being a fighter pilot is a trade - no schooling or prior experience will let you short cut the training - but no one considers them inferior to say a degreed librarian.

As I'm fond of saying, engineers know what to do, electricians know how to do it. There's a good deal of overlap in the middle, but two vastly different skillsets to learn if someone wants to do both. I don't intend to presume my engineering experience gives any sort of magic entitlement to practice as an electrician, but it does give me a leg up from the man on the street walking in cold.

Nor do I intend to quit my job and start pulling cable; it's just frustrating to be able to stand there and go "Ayup, we've got a problem! Looks like that ground right there is corroded and needs replaced before someone gets killed. I should go find a contracting agent so I can put the job up for bid and maybe get an electrician out here in a few weeks to take care of it." We've had a smashed receptacle here for 4 months- 4 MONTHS- a simple smashed duplex receptacle- that would take appx 3 minutes and $2 to replace, including tag-out time. Yet all I can legally do is wrap it in caution tape, and I probably wasn't even supposed to do that much. I have respect for electricians- that's why I'm here on this forum. But just because I haven't spent 5 years bending conduit doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing. I *do* have experience in electrical work, it's just not the traditional "apprentice-on-up" kind that most of you have.

My post was NOT directed at you personally, Steve. Rather, in a broad sense, I've encountered comments and assertions from folks in several different contexts that suggested to me that few truly appreciate the 'skilled' in the term 'skilled trade.'

Likewise, having recently completed a project for the local school district, I was made all too aware of the 'college only' emphasis that the kids were getting.

That is one reason why I can't get too mad at the Mexicans. We have a lot of people who say they are here taking our jobs but if you go down to the high school looking for someone who wants to work in a trade, starting at the bottom, they look at you like you have two heads.
For some reason they would rather go to college for 5 years and work in a dead end office job the rest of their life.

I know NJ specifically does not count any hours working under a licensed contractor in a management capacity toward the 8000 required hours to sit for the exam.

That is why they require 8000 hours on the job, in that amount of time you can be fairly certain that a person has encountered a variety of jobs, tasks and had the opportunity to glean the required skills from his fellow tradesmen. I know this is not always the case, but I do believe the logic is sound and think that it works more times than not.

No offense, but wiring one addition - while admirable, does not prove sufficient skills in the field. Plain and simple.