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#168060 - 08/26/07 11:03 AM Another Hack Range Install  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
These pics are from Ian, TheElectricKid.

I suppose it's best to lead off with a pic of the back of the appliance. It appears someone wasn't sure what the strain relief clip was for:


[Linked Image]


Then it gets better (or worse!). Looks like there was a bit of remodeling done, and the recep just didn't quite line up with the hole the guy cut in that "expensive" drywall:


[Linked Image]


Finally, inside the wall, the 'flying receptacle:'


[Linked Image]

Last edited by renosteinke; 08/26/07 11:52 PM.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#168061 - 08/26/07 11:12 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: renosteinke]  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
A great argument for permits and inspections. smile


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#168102 - 08/27/07 04:51 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: iwire]  
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,400
Vienna, Austria
Dunno... how on earth are you going to inspect cord connected appliances (like the range w/o strain relief) and minor construction stuff like putting up new drywall?
Call for a constrution permit for everything that exceeds hanging a picture using thumb tacks?

Regarding the range one possibility would be to outlaw any modifications by non-licensed electricians other than a) plugging and unplugging stuf and b) changing light bulbs. This is reality in many countries and also some states of the US (I think NYC for example is that strict) and doesn't keep anyone from doing hack jobs.

I think even in the most conscious country I know, Switzerland, this would only fail if somebody reported it.


#168103 - 08/27/07 06:11 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Texas_Ranger]  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Originally Posted by Texas_Ranger
Call for a construction permit for everything that exceeds hanging a picture using thumb tacks?



I live in Massachusetts, if you read the law replacing a receptacle could require a permit and inspection.

Is that how it really works? No.

Instead of a long rant I will just say that IMO the majority of pictures posted on this forum of poor work are from areas that do not have licensing or inspections.

Not to say we don't have licensed hacks but the inspection process helps to slow them down.





Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#168104 - 08/27/07 06:16 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Texas_Ranger]  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Originally Posted by Texas_Ranger
. This is reality in many countries and also some states of the US (I think NYC for example is that strict) and doesn't keep anyone from doing hack jobs.


To me this argument makes no sense.

To me that is like saying seat belts don't save everyone so don't even bother.

I can't comment on how other countries do it but I can tell you here that inspections reduce the number of bad installations.

The fact that inspectors are failing jobs IMO proves they are catching violations that would have been remained otherwise.





Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#168106 - 08/27/07 07:13 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: iwire]  
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,400
Vienna, Austria
I'm not saying we don't need inspections. I'm just questioning the idea of insepcting EVERYTHING. Usually permits/inspections are only required for work exceeding a certain scope and I think this is quite reasonable.

Besides, Austria does not require permits or inspections (nor does Germany) and I don't think general workmanship is worse than in the US (areas with permits and inspections), BUT only licensed electrical contractors are allowed to do anything beyond plug connected stuff and light bulbs. This seems to work reasonably well. I just wanted to point out measures like this won't completely stop ALL hack work like this.


#168109 - 08/27/07 10:24 AM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Texas_Ranger]  
Theelectrikid  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 810
Levittown, PA
John, thanks (and nice job) on posting the pics.

Okay, it's obvious what's wrong with the first picture. Rest assured it is now done properly, with the clip actually in the hole.

Second pic is the one that made me yell when we pulled the old range out. The green board was put up by the previous (handyman) homeowner when they remodeled the house back in 1973. It's sized for the original GE range. (Back when appliances lasted more than three years.)

What I wound up doing was shutting the breaker off, and just swapping the cord to the new range, as my mother wouldn't let me pull down the green board (or cut a bigger hole in it) to move the receptacle to the outside of the wall. Oh well, can't win 'em all I guess.

Ian A.


Is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?

#168125 - 08/27/07 04:16 PM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Theelectrikid]  
Ann Brush  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 152
Ohia
If the job of rewiring recep's or connecting major cord/cap appliances required a permit - I would be a perpetual violator. It's a violation but I don't see how you can set up a legal inspection framework to prevent this kind of thing that's also practical.

Customer: Can you come and inspect my new range?
AHJ: Sorry we are booked through next week?
Customer: I guess I will go without dinner for a week.
AHJ: Well you do need to loose weight!

It's the automotive equivalent of requiring the dealer to adjust your seat position.


#168126 - 08/27/07 04:19 PM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Texas_Ranger]  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Originally Posted by Texas_Ranger
I just wanted to point out measures like this won't completely stop ALL hack work like this.


Of course not. smile

But If that was inspected it would not exist as it is.

I agree that the connection to the dryer itself would be tough to inspect but the installation a 30 amp 240 volt outlet should be inspected.

If that had been inspected would it be floating in the wall?



Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#168128 - 08/27/07 04:22 PM Re: Another Hack Dryer Install [Re: Ann Brush]  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Originally Posted by Ann Brush
If the job of rewiring recep's


Ann, would you like me to post the law from my state?

Installing a 30 amp 240 volt outlet requires a license, a permit and an inspection.

Sorry if you feel the laws inconvenient. wink


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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