ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Monumental chandelier restoration

Hi Ob;

Sounds like a good idea, but I don't think LEDs are "there" yet in terms of cost or of the quality of light desired. Incandescent lamps give a soft glow, especially when dimmed, and my experience with LEDS is that they are much too bright and glaring.

Charles:
Nice link! As to your questions, ponder this. 2700 watts, regardless of the number of lamps is 2700 watts. 2.7 KW, and if on for 6 hours, at .20 KWHr equates to $ 3.24

Utilizing multi controls (switches or dimmers) will lower the wattage consumption and costs. Dimmers, IMHO also tend to increase lamp life.

There are numerous other lighting scenes that could be implemented to hilite this outstanding crystal piece. Several VNSP MR type lamps to refract off the crystals for one; IF locations could be wired.

Frankly, and please do not take this the wrong way, I have a tough time accepting 'energy costs' as a concern, at a place like this.

Mike: (Trumpy)

I was going to call you to see if you would jump the pond and work on this job with ME. NO, just kidding my friend.

OB:
LED technology is not ready for this. And, seems like $$$$ is an issue?

Hi HotLine1;

I do realize that 2.7 KW will always be 2.7 KW. I was just wondering if the light of 2.7 KW of 25 watt bulbs could be produced with fewer watts worth of higher wattage bulbs. My memory is failing me at this moment, but aren't higher wattage bulbs more efficient in general in terms of lumens per watt?

Every penny must be accounted for at this residence for the purposes of maximizing funds for the various restoration projects. Roofing (slate, and *lots of it) needs to be assessed and replaced, painting costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, heating, antique conservation, acquisitions for the collects and of course, there is always the tax man. There is also the upcoming restoration of a room panelled with panelling from a French palace, which is due to be costly and detailed, and of the central courtyard, which is constructed entirely of brick, half-timers and stucco.

Halogen is what I had initially suggested but I now think it would cause bright spots. The refraction from this piece is already astounding --- the light of the other fixtures really play off of it as you walk around the room. There is also sunlight which comes in from the south-facing solarium which opens onto the courtyard and runs alongside the room (the wall you see in the picture is the north wall, so think the facing wall).

I don't take it the wrong way at all, I am just sure that anyone would want to save on their utility bills ;-). Also, I believe this portion of the house is actually leased to the foundation which conducts tours, etc, which was founded by the owners.

I can't tell if the desire to reduce the number of dimmers to reduce the overall wattage for cost and conservation reasons, or to eliminate the complexity of having multiple controls to operate the chandelier.

If the latter, you might want to look into theatrical lighting controls, which can easily handle the wattage you need. ETC (ETC hamepage) has "architectural" control stations and dimmer modules that go as high as 100 amps per channel, or you can run multiple 20 amp dimmer modules from a single control if you need to stay within 20 amp (or even 15 amp) circuits.

There are a number of companies that can provide controls that would work in your sitution; I mention ETC only because I'm familiar with some of their stuff.

Hi SP;

I tried to view that page but was unable to as only a line of error text showed up.

I think the desire to reduce the number of bulbs comes from a number of things: less sockets could mean less potential problems, easier to troubleshoot if there is a problem, and reduced (even slightly) energy costs if higher wattage bulbs yield more lumens per watt than their lower-wattage counterparts.

I don't think it's necessary to have one dimmer for the entire chandelier. As it is right now, the outer lights have purposefully been put on their own switch for when the room is otherwise fairly dark during late night events, stage set-ups, etc. The flexibility of two to three dimmers will probably be most desirable. I have sent off an email *so far* suggesting Lutron, but the owner is always frightfully busy so I understand that replies can take quite a while.

Yes lighting controls comes to mind.

Also a Lutron HP or simmular dimmer controller.

The HP-6 does 6KW.

Someone could really overload that thing with 105 of the wrong wattage bulbs.

If it had 105 bulbs myself I would keep it the same. Not that the lighting is needed, but more to keep it the orignal larger than needed style.

Hi A1;

Can a residential (this estate is classified as a residence although it contains, er, is, a museum of antiques and art) lighting circuit exceed 20 amps? That would really be the only application where a dimmer above 2 KW would be needed. I don't see that happening though as any given circuit to the chandelier is limited by the gauge if the conductors actually contained within the chandelier. It may be more practical to have multiple circuits rather than a single, larger one.

I certainly like the idea of 105 lights, but I think it factors in to fixture maintenance and other aforementioned things. The chandelier's large scale definitely suits the room and gives it a majestic feeling. It certainly must have once been in the palace theatre or in a very large ballroom.

Charles, I wonder why the link doesn't work for you; I just checked it, and I can access it from here. Perhaps it is a Firefox/IE difference.

In any case, here is the address, which you can type into your browser: www.etcconnect.com

The company is Electronic Theatre Controls.

Although, it sounds like you have some other viable approaches.

SP;

I was able to access the website with that link that you provided. I an an ardent Firefox user ;-)

The systems which I quickly browsed through seem to be rather substantial and surely would be suited for this fantastic room, with it's ten chandeliers (I forgot to mention one hanging above what used to be a throne dais!) and four large electric crystal candelabra, but the owner expressed her desire to only restore this one chandelier (all the others aren't as old and in very good condition). There aren't any problems or changes needed with the switching or dimming of the other nine chandeliers and four lamps.

Leviton produces a series of dimmers called "Van Gogh" with screwless plates, a heatsinks with wide and narrow faces supporting loads of up to 800, 1000, 1500 and 2000 watts. Are these good dimmers? Does Lutron produce anything similar with a simple face? These dimmers will have to be operated by any number of staff numbers, including wait staff brought in for special events. The less complex the better, probably.