ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
IRC M1307.3
by gfretwell. 08/18/18 09:08 AM
Light Pole Grounding
by Mosfet74. 08/18/18 08:42 AM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Bill Addiss. 08/13/18 05:52 PM
Upgrade the old panel
by gfretwell. 08/13/18 12:20 AM
depth of duckbank
by ghost307. 08/12/18 09:26 PM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 2 guests, and 24 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Question on Knob & Tube #163245
05/04/07 07:00 PM
05/04/07 07:00 PM
R
rowland  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5
I will be the first to tell you I don't know everything. I don't have much experience with K&T and I am looking at doing a service upgrade on a house that has some K&T, not all just a couple of circuits. It looks like the circuits that are K&T are the orignal general use circuits to the house. The K&T wiring is in good shape, bendable, no cracks, it doesn't appear to have been over heated. The home owner doesn't want to open up the walls, so I was going to cut out half of the K&T circuit, there are no outlets on this section, set a 4x4x2 non-metallatic junction box and bring the remaining K&T in on opposite sides of the box, then tie in with romex and run back to the new panel. I ran this by a friend of mine at the local inspection office and he saw no problem with it, as long as the existing K&T was it good shape. I read this board alot and was wondering what was your thoughts or suggestions.

Rowland

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: rowland] #163246
05/04/07 07:10 PM
05/04/07 07:10 PM
E
Elviscat  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 214
Seattle Washington USA
just bring the old K&T in through seperate knockouts in a NM box and you should be good to go, most areas have some form of a "grandfather clause" that covers stuff like this. I would check behind the lights though, a lot of old lights on K&T hlack boxes, and have crispy wires from overlamping, just a CYA (cover your behind)

oh, and welcome to the board!

-Will

Last edited by Elviscat; 05/04/07 07:11 PM. Reason: add last sentence
Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: Elviscat] #163247
05/04/07 07:17 PM
05/04/07 07:17 PM
T
Tom H  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 74
Milford, Ct, USA
Look in the NEC, not sue what article but you might need to protect the existing K&T with a GFI. Ran into this about 8-9 yrs ago and that was the solution then, not sure if NEC has changed since.


Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: Elviscat] #163248
05/04/07 07:20 PM
05/04/07 07:20 PM
R
rowland  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5
I was planning on bringing the K&T in through different knockouts, in fact I am planning using one of those NM junction boxes that you drill your own holes in and I was even going use some rubber groments in the holes. Thanks for the input. In my area K&T is taboo, everyone says rip it out. The way I look at it, it has been that for 100 years and if it is good shape why rip open walls and ceilings.

Rowland

Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: Tom H] #163249
05/04/07 07:24 PM
05/04/07 07:24 PM
R
rowland  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Tom H
Look in the NEC, not sue what article but you might need to protect the existing K&T with a GFI. Ran into this about 8-9 yrs ago and that was the solution then, not sure if NEC has changed since.



The artical in the NEC for K&T is about 2 pages long and just says splices will be in an approved manner and wire will be in accordance with 310. I and my friend found nothing about GFCI, but I will double check.

Thanks
Rowland

Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: rowland] #163254
05/04/07 08:11 PM
05/04/07 08:11 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,252
Estero,Fl,usa
The only way to get to GFCI being required on K&T is if you serve a grounding type receptacle and no ground present


Greg Fretwell
Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: gfretwell] #163255
05/04/07 08:51 PM
05/04/07 08:51 PM
L
LK  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
K&T is still an approved method of wiring, however, in the last few months we have been getting calls from home sellers, it seems the buyers of homes, that have K&T can not get insurance for them, and are requiring rewire before insuring.

Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: LK] #163259
05/04/07 10:14 PM
05/04/07 10:14 PM
Obsaleet  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 362
Pa
Hi Rowland,
u can use solder on the K&T and tape it up just as was done on all the joints and taps. It is one of the approved mean, and is simple. I have been out on many calls from realtors, to remove wirnuts and other splices from K&T. Inspectors here seem to like this approch.

Ob


Choose your customers, don't let them choose you.
Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: Obsaleet] #163279
05/05/07 12:06 PM
05/05/07 12:06 PM
S
Sixer  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 265
Canada
Where the old K&T enters existing boxes, there should be an additional sleeve on the wire. I always have a couple of pieces of this sleeving on hand when working with K&T for entry into new boxes to protect the wire.

As for insurance, we have the same issue here as what Les said above. Once a house with K&T is sold, insurance companies give a fixed period of time to have it replaced, otherwise the homeowner can't get insurance.



Sixer

"Will it be cheaper if I drill the holes for you?"
Re: Question on Knob & Tube [Re: Sixer] #163289
05/05/07 02:37 PM
05/05/07 02:37 PM
M
Mountain Electrician  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 31
Maine, USA
Originally Posted by Sixer
Where the old K&T enters existing boxes, there should be an additional sleeve on the wire. I always have a couple of pieces of this sleeving on hand when working with K&T for entry into new boxes to protect the wire.

As for insurance, we have the same issue here as what Les said above. Once a house with K&T is sold, insurance companies give a fixed period of time to have it replaced, otherwise the homeowner can't get insurance.


The same is true here, as well. The last job I did the homeowner was required replace the K&T within 30 days after closing.


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Trumpy
Trumpy
SI,New Zealand
Posts: 8,236
Joined: July 2002
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 3
Popular Topics(Views)
248,626 Are you busy
186,365 Re: Forum
175,834 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.028s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0123 MB (Peak: 1.1910 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-08-19 12:10:32 UTC