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Communications #161994
04/11/07 12:58 PM
04/11/07 12:58 PM
R
RSmike  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 134
Holland, MI USA
Is running a shielded twisted pair communications cable (CAN-bus operating at 5-24vdc) along with a SO cord 18/3 (operating at 3A - 120VAC) inside the same liquid tight flexible nonmetallic conduit (LFNC) a legal installation with respect to NPFA70-2005? With respect to NPFA79-2007?

Put on your thinking caps gentlemen,

RSLater,
RSmike

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Communications [Re: RSmike] #162001
04/11/07 06:05 PM
04/11/07 06:05 PM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
SO Cord can not be installed in a raceway.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: Communications [Re: iwire] #162011
04/11/07 08:05 PM
04/11/07 08:05 PM
E
EV607797  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
Unless all conductors, not cables, are rated for the maximum voltage in use within the raceway, then this type of installation isn't permitted. My question would be how these circuits are separated at the ends of the liquid-tight since any approved enclosure would have separate high and low-voltage compartments?

I'd go with the shielded communications cable routed outside of the liquid-tight and run THHN, etc. inside.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
Re: Communications [Re: EV607797] #162012
04/11/07 08:14 PM
04/11/07 08:14 PM
J
JBD  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 599
WI, USA
Originally Posted by EV607797
My question would be how these circuits are separated at the ends of the liquid-tight since any approved enclosure would have separate high and low-voltage compartments?


There are many industrial enclosures which contain PLCs and/or drives that use CANBUS for communications that do not have separated LV compartments.

This sounds like a Class 1 or Class 2 application although <24V communications circuits are not always "power limited".

Last edited by JBD; 04/11/07 08:17 PM.
Re: Communications [Re: JBD] #162021
04/11/07 10:55 PM
04/11/07 10:55 PM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Communications wiring and Power wiring are not permitted in the same raceway I don't care what the insulation ratings are. Article 800 Section 800.133 NFPA70 2005 Edition.


George Little
Re: Communications [Re: George Little] #162032
04/12/07 09:37 AM
04/12/07 09:37 AM
R
RSmike  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 134
Holland, MI USA
Unless I missed it I also don't see NPFA70 allowing this or it's not specifically stated.

However, I read NPFA79 13.1.3 as allowing this; comments?

RSLater,
RSmike


Re: Communications [Re: George Little] #162033
04/12/07 10:10 AM
04/12/07 10:10 AM
J
JBD  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 599
WI, USA
Originally Posted by George Little
Communications wiring and Power wiring are not permitted in the same raceway I don't care what the insulation ratings are. Article 800 Section 800.133 NFPA70 2005 Edition.


Here we go with terminology.

CAN bus is normally used for interconnecting automation devices which is is probably a 725 remote-control and signalling application. 725.55(D) and 725.55(E) have provisions for mixing Class 2 and Class 3 circuits with other wiring.

Article 800 is for "central station systems" like telephones. However, 830 address networks so 830.133(A)(1)(d) Excpt #1 may be applicable.


Re: Communications [Re: JBD] #162038
04/12/07 11:11 AM
04/12/07 11:11 AM
R
RSmike  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 134
Holland, MI USA
725.55(D)(2)a - makes me a happy person.

What about SO cord in LFNC? Why is this not allowed? It terminates so well into the operator interface terminal device I'm powering. THHN is cheaper so I'll probably do that.

RSthanks,
RSmike

Re: Communications [Re: RSmike] #162047
04/12/07 12:58 PM
04/12/07 12:58 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,251
Estero,Fl,usa
George isn't class 1 OK in the raceway with the circuit(s) it controls?
I agree class 2/3 is not.
I suppose the real question is whether CanBus is a class 1 compliant wiring method


Greg Fretwell
Re: Communications [Re: gfretwell] #162058
04/12/07 03:09 PM
04/12/07 03:09 PM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Greg- The original post only said Communication cable which put me in Article 800. I don't really know what CanBus is and maybe you are correct. Don't sound to me like 725 is even involved. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. The Scope of 800 is Communication Circuits and so that's where I went. Straighten this old man out smile


George Little
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