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#160871 - 03/27/07 05:47 AM This is a tad worrying  
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
We don't tend to have that many accidents at work, but I called in on work this morning and a few of the Line guys have got these tattoo's(sp?), saying DNR.
Now, as far as I know this means Do Not Resuscitate.
This is really worrying considering that if any of these guys do have an accident at work and do require CPR or the like, we have to under law, we train in Pole-Top Rescue's once per 6 months.
I was talking to my wife about this (an Ambulance Officer of 12 years) and she said a tattoo like that means nothing under current Health and Safety Law.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not Pro-Life or Anti-Life or what-ever.
Please don't turn this into a political thing.
The guys that did go out and get these tats obviously know what they are getting into.
Our type of work is known for horrendous burns if something really goes wrong, which can send you into cardiac arrest, but to say to all around you that I don't want to be revived seems very foreign.
This DNR thing used to be reserved for cancer patients I think, but this is taking it too far.
I'm all for tattoo's just not that particular one.
What is your take on this?.
{BTW to any Moderator that thinks that this thread should be pulled, please do so}

Arc Flash PPE Clothing, LOTO & Insulated Tools

#160886 - 03/27/07 10:35 AM Re: This is a tad worrying [Re: Trumpy]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
I would not worry overmuch as to the tattoo.

First of all, for all I know it may mean "Department of Natural Resources."

In the strange ways of fashion, it may even be like a leather jacket was in the 50's: a way of saying 'look how cool I am.'

And, even if the meaning and intent is clear, and had been well voiced beforehand by the individual, there are still degrees of care.

A man who has just received a jolt, and has had complete cardiac / respiratory shutdown, may need nothing more than a good solid whack to get everything started again ... and be perfectly well 15 minutes later (See thread "Today I witnessed an Electrocution).

Another person may need hours of assistance before the drugs in their system let go; if they've been out a while, they just might never recover. Think "Anna Nicole Smith."
I believe such a "DNR" wish expresses the desire to not live on as an empty shell, in that limbo between life and death. (Terri Schiavo, for example). I believe they are saying "no heroics."

I do not see any such desire having any effect in the event of an accident. Once the body is at the hospital, and the long-term issues become relevant. Do your best, and let the lawyers argue later.

#160900 - 03/27/07 02:11 PM Re: This is a tad worrying [Re: renosteinke]  
Alan Belson  Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Mayenne N. France
Mike, time to worry is when you get over 60 and the doc writes it on your chart without you knowing about it!

Best wishes on your recent wedding from me & Denise, by the way. Congratulations!


Wood work but can't!

#160902 - 03/27/07 02:29 PM Re: This is a tad worrying [Re: Alan Belson]  
Luketrician  Offline
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 272
Sale Creek, TN USA
Hey Mike, when I went though First Responder training we were taught that unless we are presented with a legal D.N.R document. We have to administer emergency medical care.

Even if there are family members there, and they say that that there is a D.N.R, but cannot present one, we have to proceed with treatment.

Luke Clarke
Electrical Planner for TVA.

#160996 - 03/28/07 05:39 PM Re: This is a tad worrying [Re: Luketrician]  
RobbieD  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 231
Interesting tatoos. I was always taught that if a person is unconscious then you can give first aid if you want to. Its up to the first aider regardless of the person's desire not to be resusitated. They are now unconscious so they are not able to make a decision on whether they want first aid. Its up to the first aider.
Now if the person was lying there with a masive sucking chest wound and they are conscious and they say they don't want first aid then none is given. As soon as they pass out apply first aid if you want to.
In Canada we have the Good Samaritan Act which basically says this. So nobody here has to worry about getting sued.
I think that the US is the place where people sue others for saving their lives. I don't understand places where everyone sues everyone, seems rather silly.

#161005 - 03/28/07 07:52 PM Re: This is a tad worrying [Re: Trumpy]  
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
Hi Guys,
Thanks for keeping the replies to this thread relatively clean!.
Personally, that fact that some staff go out and get some tattoo's changes nothing really.
From a legal perspective a first-aider is required by law here to provide care regardless of any such tattoo or similar such thing.
Suing someone for saving you life has to be one of the stupidest ideas I've heard so far,
especially in a time where it is hard to get people here in workplaces that want to be trained enough to be able to provide care in the event of an accident.
I blame the lawyers personally.
All I had to say about the thing at work regarding the tats was, "You're soaking in it Madge!".
What a silly thing to think about, let alone do. eek

#161057 - 03/29/07 05:49 PM Re: This is a tad worrying [Re: RobbieD]  
Elviscat  Offline
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 214
Seattle Washington USA
here in the US we have good samaritan laws too, if you injure or kill someone while trying to save their life (cracking a rib during CPR, moing someone with a broken neck from a car that's on fire, etc) you legally cannot be prosecuted. We're not THAT lawsuit happy in the US.... yet


#161095 - 03/30/07 12:42 AM Re: This is a tad worrying [Re: Elviscat]  
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
There was a silly thing on the news here the other night, regarding CPR.
Some doctor in the US was saying that we are doing CPR all wrong in the case of chest compressions.
This guy reckons that providing air to the lungs is wasting time in getting the blood pressure back up to normal.
I was watching this thinking what sort of clown (let alone an MD) would suggest that we all start chest compressions, but no oxygen going to the brain.
Even in an exhalation there is at least 6% oxygen in the breath given to a victim.
If the brain gets no oxygen at all, it dies.
Sure the survival rate from anyone requiring CPR is not that great but, I'd sooner take that risk with interrupting chest compressions to add breath's into the mix.
I've been resusitated after a heart attack using the old method, I say leave it alone.
Your take on this?.

#161146 - 03/30/07 06:29 PM Re: This is a tad worrying [Re: Trumpy]  
Elviscat  Offline
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 214
Seattle Washington USA
actually the American Heart Association (AHA) are the ones that did the study and now recomend a far higher compresion/breath ratio in their CPR methods, the AHA is a large, well funded, and very respectable orginisation made up of mant M.D.s. Not to mention they have no, err "financial" reasoning for their decision like so many US health orginisationss/associations do, because no one makes any money off CPR, unless it's successful, so I'd tend to believe the reports myself... I have a CPR card, that's due to expire soon, I think I'll go in and get a new one at the "Y" soon.

just my 2 cents

Last edited by Elviscat; 03/30/07 06:30 PM.

#161257 - 04/01/07 12:07 AM Re: This is a tad worrying [Re: Elviscat]  
noderaser  Offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 404
Portland, Oregon, United State...
Sounds like the paramedics who confused the yellow Lance Armstrong wristbands with those worn by DNR cancer patients...

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