ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Tray cable?
by davistrembley. 02/22/19 07:53 AM
Light activation in closet by a broken connection?
by geoff in UK. 02/19/19 01:35 PM
AFDD's coming to the UK
by Texas_Ranger. 02/18/19 02:04 PM
by Texas_Ranger. 02/18/19 02:01 PM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Scott35), 2 guests, and 14 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
liability due to poweroutrage #159107
11/01/06 09:39 AM
11/01/06 09:39 AM
rommel  Offline OP
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1
this is the situation:

We have supplied a paralleling switchgear that synchronize a 2500kw Generator with the local utility. The first time they run the equipment using their actual loads, it did synchronized and run for several days already. Then due to bad weather the there was a power disturbance causes the utility mains circuit breaker to trip off ,same with the generator breaker. In other words there was total shudown inside the plant.
Productions and operation was stopped. Now the customer is charging us for the production loss , and machine's electronic parts were damaged due to power outage as what they were claiming.

Are we liable to pay for it? W e dont have a contract or agreement for such liability or damages. They only gave as Purchase Order for the supply of Paralleling switchgear.

What is your stand about it. In your opinion what will be my strong defense againts this kind of situation.

In addition , we have still 50% balance uncollected to this customer and the they are charging us a 48% percent of the total amount.

Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:
Re: liability due to poweroutrage #159108
11/01/06 10:12 AM
11/01/06 10:12 AM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
You need to call on some pros. There are many issues that need to be addressed, before an answer can be given.

Major issues include:
-Who designed the system?
-Who selected the equipment?
-Was the equipment used correctly, installed correctly?
-Were proper methods used to test the switch-over?
-How long has the equipment been in use?
-Was any other word performed on the system?
-What did the customer ask for? Did he get it?
-What promises were made?
-Did the customer accept the equipment, and the testing?
-Was there anything that would have prevented the power failure? Was they 'thing' part of the job?

If you have "errors and omissions" insurance, then you need to talk to your insurance carrier.

Otherwise, you need to get an attorney involved. You need his professional opinion as to what your area recognises as to express and implied warranties, damage limitations, etc.

There are literally centuries of experience that help us determine what is reasonable, and what is not. The "Uniform Commercial Code" offers some guidance- but you have to understand the context. Likewise, standard insurance policies are based upon this sort of litigation.

I would not place a lot of faith in their 'after the fact' second guessing. Were they competent enough to do this, they would also be competent enough to specify things correctly- and therefore be responsible for giving you a bad spec.

Re: liability due to poweroutrage #159109
11/01/06 01:04 PM
11/01/06 01:04 PM
JJM  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 100
A lawyer really should be consulted... unless the 48% is of no consequence to you.

That being said, I do not believe you have any liability whatsoever since the only document for this transaction was a purchase order. In other words it was THEY that specified what was to be installed. All you did was the work, and apparently had nothing to do with the design (even if you did the design, they need to have proof). As long as you installed the switchgear properly and per the purchase order specification, you have a right to be paid. Hate to say it, but it's not your problem the equipment didn't work. There does not appear to be any warranties here, express or implied.

By the way, if their operations were so critical, why all this paralleling scheme? Why not just standby power, which in my opinion is more reliable? Were they just trying to get a couple of bucks back by selling power back to the POCO? Some folks think having the meter spin backwards is the best invention since sliced bread, but the nature of this beast is you could be out of power altogether... as this case situation clearly illustrates.

You should also consider a lawyer before they "find" more damages they think your liable for.


Re: liability due to poweroutrage #159110
11/01/06 01:16 PM
11/01/06 01:16 PM
LK  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
This is a good topic, how to avoid problems, with design build projects. When doing design build work, such as your switchgear installation, it is best to have a professional engineer, design, and spec. all the equipment, many contractors, try to avoid the cost of professional engineering, and end up in litigation, when problems arise, and to make matters worse, they are usually not insured, to do design work, which requires professional errors, and ommisions, libality insurance.

On the purchase order issue, that uaually has the customers terms on it, not yours, again, many contractors, are afraid, if they ask to have their contract signed, the customer will find someone else, at this point if they don't want to sign your terms, best to pass on the project, you need protection, and without a written contract your position is weak.

As posted above, you may need to get your attorney involved. "You need his professional opinion as to what your area recognises as to express and implied warranties, damage limitations, etc."

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 11-01-2006).]


2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Member Spotlight
Posts: 165
Joined: March 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 9
Trumpy 3
Popular Topics(Views)
253,316 Are you busy
189,923 Re: Forum
179,647 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.021s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9640 MB (Peak: 1.0933 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2019-02-23 19:40:34 UTC