ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades Looming Powercrisis in New Zealand

Paul,
Mate lets tell it how it is.
In 20 years, how far have we really come?.
We were making progress, but we dropped the ball, somewhere along the line.
We are heading backwards at a break-neck pace.
The world needs a lot more energy these days, and there are a lot more people using that energy.
People want to be entertained these days.
Most of it is crap.
International News, who cares??.

This story is bound to start an argument against the supply of the North Island from the South Island!.
And to think, we're paying for the Electricity Commission to do stupid things like this.
Got your axe sharpened Kiwi?.

{Message edited for typo}

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 03-15-2006).]

Thanks Mike for that story.
Typically from burocrats passing the buck.
The HVDC link is part of the national grid and should remain that.
You can see what will happen next? A HVDC levy will be added to your powerbill to get the consumer pay for additional transmission costs.

Ok now our local problems here in the Big Smog. Transpower is still having RMA problems to increase the loading on the 220 kV lines from Penrose to Henderson.
It basically means that the wires will run hotter, up to 120 °C and will sag a bit more.
Load management have been set up now that if a certain critical threshold is reached about 6000 homes will be cut of from the grid. ( what they say, would you believe them, it may be more. )
Good he!! especially when it happens to be your feeder.

edited for typo's

[This message has been edited by RODALCO (edited 03-15-2006).]

With all these modern electronic appliances that cannot be turned off except by the switch on the power point, and greedy people who think
it is their right to have fully airconditioned houses and pool pumps running all day, is it any wonder power consumption is escalating at an exponential rate?
Why is that up until 25 years ago that people survived perfectly well without air conditioning, and now even the slummiest flats now have to have the ubiquitous split system?
As the population becomes more ignorant of where things come from (food is a classic example), they just seem to think electricity can be provided in as large quantities as they want..after all it just comes out of the power point doesn't it?
It really is unbelievable that the green left movement which used to campaign so heavily for wind generation is now turning against it.

Aussie,
I find it very hard to believe that any Australian would say that Air Con is un-necessary.
I thought Air Con was mandatory there?.
This just in: Prolific research over a number of years has revealed that milk in fact comes not from a supermarket, but from an animal called a cow.
And mate, that is a group that have lost thier direction, caused by fanatical people trying to put "thier" point across, but instead further muddying the waters and holding up progress.

{Blast, missing "h"}



[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 03-15-2006).]

[quote]I find it very hard to believe that any Australian would say that Air Con is un-necessary.
I thought Air Con was mandatory there?[quote]

Well it seems to be now, whereas not that long ago it was just a luxury and we seemed to survive without it.
Being a child of the 70's I remember many hot summer days with no air conditioning and we just accepted it. We'd complain about the heat and go for a swim or sit in front of a fan. A few lucky people had a small (up to 2.4kw) wall or window air conditioner that could cool one or two rooms but a fully ducted temperature controlled system for the whole house was unheard of.
But as Australia has decided it must copy everything the U.S does, fully ducted heating and airconditioning are no longer just for the rich...it's almost expected. Hence the summer overload of the supply network for the last couple of years.
Incidentally I do wonder if people are installing airconditioning in areas where the less power hungry evaporative cooler would do. It's amazing how cheap air con is now...you can even buy a complete split system for $400 from "The Warehouse" (a $2 shop).
The other thing these days is with greedy developers, house blocks are smaller than they used to be and with the desire for huge houses (Mc Mansions), houses no longer have eaves and verandahs to shade the walls. And in the treeless locations where all these housing estates are being built it's hardly suprising they're all airconditioned. When they have huge glass windows facing north it doesn't help either.
It's ironic that a 100 year old house was designed to work without air con....a verandah on the north side shields the front from the sun in summer but lets it in during winter. With a hallway running down the middle of the house from front door to back you get extremely effective ventilation with both doors open.
Interestingly there was some bill introduced by the state govt to supposedly make all new houses be energy efficient (passive solar design etc) but the developers are fighting it.
Is the environment we live in really that awful that we must shield ourselves against it, and use copious amounts of energy to do so?

If the South Island generators need the Cook Strait HVDC link to carry power to their customers then they should foot the bill shouldn't they ?

Can anyone tell me why the HVDC link transmits north to south 10% of the time ?

How far does power generated in the southern hydro lakes go ? Does it go all the way to Auckland ?

If the Cook Strait Cable was ever severed, could the North Island exist on its own generation capacity?

If the 19th century settlers would have had a little more foresight then they would have located the capital in Dunedin.

I've just finished reading the memoirs of Logan-Campbell and his account of the decision of the British Govt to locate the capital of NZ at the Auckland Isthmus. Alas the decision was based soley on geographical merit. If only they had known that the other end of the country was going to produce cheap electricity. Things may be different now.

A bit of foresight can make a lot of difference.

Incidently I think it's a little weird that we've now based our capital in a city that doesn't even have an international airport!

Kiwi,
To my understanding of the deal, the DC Link was installed to take up any slack in the lack of capacity in the North Island.
What has happened however, instead of the North Island Power generators building new generation capacity, they have just expected the DC Link to provide a supply to an ever-increasing load.
Now, where we lose out down here, is that when we have a dry summer or winter, it is the South Island that is asked to save power first.
North Island power prices should reflect the cost of getting the supply there, not expecting the supplier to pay for it.

If by "asked to save power" you mean forced to take cold showers. Thats a very good point Trumpy.

The South Island always showed better power saving stats than the north island on those news bulletins during the crisis. Maybe because we knew that our hot water was first for the chop!

Oh well if one Mainlander has to take a cold shower on a frosty morning so that a Queen St. bank clerk can have a hot panini & latte ( decaf with skim-milk) at lunchtime then I guess thats just too bad.

I'm going to go outside for my nightly raindance now. My wife thought it was a bit weird but when I mentioned the cold showers she joined in with me, god bless her.

P.S. Trumpy, apparently the south island companies have always paid for the HVDC link, its just that this year Transpower is trying to hike it 20%. Transpower calls this (wait for it....) "CHANGING THE PRICING METHODOLOGY". I just love corporate-speak.

Also we can't charge users north of the HVDC link more for power because the Electricity Commission says so. Thats our dumb-ass government for you.

You boys play nice. DON'T MAKE US COME DOWN THERE!!!!

We've always had this type of argument in the States, and I believe WE invented NIMBY.

I had a great job at the prison, but the yuppies wanted the land and heaven forbid they live near the people they want locked up.

Our Attorney General at the time testified before Congress that it would cost 100 million to upgrade the 100 year old facility to modern standards, but to replace it in some new place would cost nearly a billion.

Congress spent 900 million extra bucks to put me out of work, my gummint in action.

We've got the same fight over here. We haven't built a Nuke in over 20 years, but I think we're about to.......just NOT in My Backyard.....my turn.