ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades some silly electrician

we have told the shop owner time and time again that the work he is doing correct, but as he persists thats its ok she says it must be ok. ive told him over and over that the work is wrong and it needs to be changed but he isnt going to do it as he thinks its up to standard. i also work with one of the best electricains in the country that has been in the trade since the 60's, and even back then he was bringing in over £1000 a week, who says it is dangerous. but the man is so high strung he wont come and change the mistakes he has done.

another thing to do is bring the HSE and let them have alook,

also your local councils environmetle health service should have the relevant electrical engineer to talk to as well.

this is a very very worrying installation, i am of the opinion that this `electricain` is not that well qualified, but that is just my opinion.

Britspark

can you get any photos???

if you can post em on here.

the environmental health have been round 2ce, the first time only the elctricain was there and he reported back to us that they said the work was ok, but the second time my business partner was there and they have told him that the work is not correct and needs changing. my concern is that the work needs doing and the owner of the shop is not going to get permission to open the shop. she is believing him over us and thinks that once he says the work is done she is going to open the shop ASAP but we know this is not going to happen. but if he issues a certificate for the work - can she open the shop by just producing this cert and doesnt need the work double checking? if so the wiring is still going to be dangerous.

Part P only applies to domestic premises, so your 'electrician' could escape the registration route/building control certification. If the 'chippie' also has accomodation and the circuit could be interpreted as part domestic, he's only wired one circuit,(albeit at 32A!!), and therefore again Part P doesn't apply! Since the consensus here is that at least 2 circuits are required, all you need do is ask your local Building Control Officer to make a site visit. I'm pretty sure if you also mention the words Income Tax Inspector near your so-called 'electrician', he will turn into a magician and vanish into thin air!
Alan

Adam,
I'd imagine the shop owners Insurance company would have something to say about this.
If that place catches fire because of that circuit, there could be a few people "in the gun".
I'd agree with Britspark, photographic evidence would be a good idea.
Oh and by the way, I reckon that this guy is some sort of a "fly-by-nighter"!.
No-one in thier right mind would protect a 1.0mm cable in that manner, you might as well just hook it straight up to the main switch.

the chippy is part of a domestic home with living facilities above it. cheers fella's this is the kind of feedback i need for the meeting - keep em comin in!

I really wouldn't be too fussed about the rules but this guy must be completely and utterly clueless if he thinks it's ok to connect lighting directly to a 32A ring. I mean, come on, it's just common sense to anyone who knows anything about electrical work.

The only way that would be even slightly acceptable is if he locally fused each lighting circuit and set them up as fused spurs off the ring main and even then it would be weird.

Don't you guys have to keep lighting and power circuits seperate?

I would assume that in a chip shop there would even be a health and safety issue with having lighting and power on the same circuit in the event of an electrical fault plunging the cooking area into darkness.

The lights should be capable of staying on independent of any MCB/RCD protected power circuits.

What exactly is on this 32A ring anyway ?

Call up the NEC and have them re-inspect the work. Contractor's regulation bodies here can do that. They have regional inspectors who check that their members are doing things correctly.

Failing that write a letter to the property owner, stating your concerns. Take photographic evidence and discharge your duty of care.

Contact the HSE and see if you can get any advice / details of how they would suggest that you proceed.




[This message has been edited by djk (edited 07-27-2005).]

That would indeed be acceptable, but the cable running to each fused spur would still need to be 2.5 sq. mm, whether the fused connection unit was on the ring or wired as a spur from the ring.

I've used that technique on occasions where an existing ring is already close by and it would be very difficult to tap into a lighting circuit to add a light.

As a matter of interest, what other circuits are present in these premises? Is the 32A MCB in question the only one feeding both the sockets and lights in the shop area? Are there any other dedicated circuits for fryers and such like?

there is a circuit for a fryer / range, and it is on the same ring MCB as the cooker. On the fused spur question, there is only one in the building which is in the kitchen but i have no idea where it supplies. i am going to get photo evidence ASAP

In a situation like this Adam, provided that you can, get anyone that you can on your side, wether it be NICEIC or a local Electrical Inspector.
Look, I work for the local PoCo here, and I have got Inspectors in on jobs where dodgy wiring has happened, they won't hassle you, if they did I would be very amazed.
Majority of our Inspectors only work for Safety, that and that alone, don't be afraid to call them, that is thier job.
Besides, most Inspectors have come from the Contracting side of the Trade too.
At least here they have.
But let's look at the effects of a 32A MCB.
Under normal conditions, a 32A MCB will take:

32A x 1.5(Close Excess Current)= 48A

There is no way that a piece of 1.0mm, even 1.5mm could sustain that sort of overload, no matter how short.