ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Non-US Electrical Systems & Trades Secondhand Appliances?

On the point about cable colours. The main reason that the use of the old colour system is dangerous is all to do with the European Common Market.

There is no reason why I can't sell an old irish electrical applience or PaulUK can't sell an old british one in France. However, to keep things simple and safe it would be advisable to use the correct colours!

What appliances does that cover? Or is it a requirement for any mains-powered equipment?

On the colors again, after our previous discussions about this I've actually quizzed a few people about what they'd think if they came across other systems.

Just about all non-technical people seem to try to associate any color with its matching British designation first, and then assume that the remaining color(s) must be for whatever's left over.

Asked about an American appliance with black, white, and green, the response was almost invariably along these lines: "Green must be earth. Black has got to be neutral, so I suppose they use white for live."

How about an old German appliance with red, black, and gray? "Red and black have to be live and neutral, so do they use gray for earth?" The assumption of red being live could be disastrous, of course.

I guess this assumption process works everywhere: Recall Texas_Ranger's story of the old British tape-recorder where he assumed red was earth.... (Sorry, Ragnar, I'm not picking on you, it just stuck in my mind! And certainly back when I was a teenager I was totally unaware of the Germanic use of red for ground.

That said, I still don't believe that there is any need for Trading Standards to tell second-hand dealers not to sell electrical equipment with the old color codes. They already have the rule that goods must be sold fitted with a plug, and if someone from another country happens to buy that item and take it home, then it's his responsibility to rewire it correctly to his own national plug, just as it would be up to me to check the colors if I bought some unfamiliar appliance overseas.

Another point is that the new colors came into use here around 1970, so anything wired with the old standard is now well over 30 years old. It's really only likely to be sold to collectors and specialists, rather than being the typical flea-market stuff where Joe Schmoe just wants a cheap second-hand and not-too-old iron, TV, kettle, etc.


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 10-03-2003).]

Would it be acceptable to sell the applience with a trailing socket with a modern BS1363 plug etc and the old gear at the other end? along with a note that it was NOT TO BE DIRECTLY CONNECTED .

That's a good question. I don't know the exact wording of the law, but I suspect the answer would be "No, not acceptable."

I'm still not quite sure of the actual legalities surrounding selling as "Collector's item, not for use." If that is permissible by law, then a trader need only apply that description to everthing he sells.

From stories I've heard, the problem is that different trading standards officers around the country seem to apply their own interpretations.

What has been deemed acceptable for new appliances, however, is the use of permanently affixed adpaters to convert a two-pin Euro-plug to a BS1363 plug.