ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Recent Posts
Do we need grounding?
by gfretwell - 04/06/24 08:32 PM
by tortuga - 03/30/24 07:39 PM
Increasing demand factors in residential
by tortuga - 03/28/24 05:57 PM
Portable generator question
by Steve Miller - 03/19/24 08:50 PM
240V only in a home and NEC?
by dsk - 03/19/24 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 37 guests, and 14 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#127932 03/21/02 01:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
aldav53 Offline OP
A customer ask about there ceiling fans not working correctly, only one speed sometimes. It sounded like someone installed a standard dimmer, not a fan speed control. They also have a remote control not working right either. I'm sure this wouldn't be good for a fan or the dimmer itself. Light dimmers vary the voltage, not sure about fan speed controls, maybe they vary the frequency or the cycles. ??

The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"
Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:

>> 2023 NEC & Related Reference & Exam Prep
2023 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides

Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with the Latest NEC & Exam Prep

>> 2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides

#127933 03/21/02 10:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 273
well im not really sure about the 2 but no a dimmer & a fan speed control are 2 different creatures. [Linked Image]

#127934 03/28/02 11:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 582
Ron Offline
What is the operational differences between a fan speed control and a dimmer, assuming they both have a similar wattage rating. Don't they both shunt the power through a resistor (old style dimmer)?

#127935 03/28/02 11:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 218
Ron, the newer fan controls use an SCR to chop the AC line I believe. Much like a VFD drive in a commercial application. Several of the ceiling fans I have seen warn about using a rheostat for speed control, as in don't. Some of the speed controls also appear to be transistorized.
(Man these 20 hr days are killing me. I don't type well in the first place)

[This message has been edited by spkjpr (edited 03-28-2002).]

#127936 04/03/02 09:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 31

can you explain a little more. what are SCR and VFD. tring to learn as much as i can. thanks


#127937 04/03/02 10:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 218
Daniel, an SCR is a Silicon Controlled Rectifier, a diode that has a Gate used to turn it on so it will conduct. It is used in many industrial and other circuits to control how long the sine wave is on. Were I work we use them to control spot welders so we can control how much heat we apply to the metal. A VFD is a Variable Frequency Drive. Used an motors to control the speed, once again we use them at work to control the speed of a straightner, used to flatten the metal as it comes off a giant coil,so it will match the speed of the stamping press. Any time you have a question, jump in and ask. All of us here are more than willing to help, I even found a man here who answered my question about a crane control when I couldn't find any info about it. Good luck and remember as a n instructor once told me" a thirst for knowledge is a good thing, it means you are still alive!"

#127938 04/04/02 08:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 31

thanks for all that info. you the man!!

#127939 04/04/02 10:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,723
Likes: 1
Broom Pusher and
Just some FYI stuff:

Many Dimmers and speed controls use Triacs [like 2 SCRs facing both directions] as the AC Amplifying / Controlling device.

Some fire a Diac for Gate conduction, some drive a SCS to amp the Triac's Gate.

The Speed control which is intregal with the typical Ceiling Fan Permanent Split Capacitor Motor ["PSC"] is comprised of a Tapped Autotransformer section that is wound with the Stator Winding [Primary], and is connected ahead of the Run Winding.
This is a simple method for speed control of an AC Induction Motor which limits the available KVA to the Rotor [Secondary] and the overall True Power [Wattage]. By reducing the Voltage, the Motor will reduce it's Rotor speed until it can draw enough True Power to drive the Rotor [simply reduced the cubic feet per minute of air moved].

I should have a schematic of the PSC Motor posted in the Reference section if anyone needs a visual reference.
Let me know if one is needed.

Normally, speed of AC Motors is determined by the Frequency applied to the Rotor [higher Frequency = higher speed].
A 2 Pole AC Induction Motor driven at 60 Hz will have an unloaded speed of 3600 RPMs, and slip down to around 3450 at full load.
A 4 Pole AC Induction Motor driven at 60 Hz will be 1800 unloaded / 1725 full load.
Double the Frequency and the speed doubles.
The 4 Pole motor effectivly cuts the Frequency Induced to the Secondary [Rotor] in 1/2, or Induces AC at 30 Hz to the Secondary.

Scott SET

Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5