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#124631 11/13/06 06:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 459
J
Member
Alan,

I agree with your interpretation of that section, but really wonder how effective it is. After all you could still hang the hangers between the joists and damage the wires.

#124632 11/14/06 01:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 100
J
JJM Offline
Member
That is really nice work! Me likeeeee!

With respect to the bundling and derating, I gotta rant a little here. How many fires have actually been caused as a result of improper or non-existent derating?

I fully understand the heat issuese, but let's face it, I would rather see an installation like this, than a rats nest all over the place. Chances are if wiring is sloppy, it is more likely to be dangerous too. With outstanding workmanship like this you know the rest of the job is as good as gold, rendering any negative effects from the lack of derating almost non-existent.

Derating could also apply in those nice neat bundles we make inside panels too. But I still think those nice neat bundles beat wiring all over the place anyday.

Also, we don't know if derating WASN'T taken into account... how do we know those cables weren't upsized?

Anyway, enough of the sideshow... nice work!

Joe

#124633 11/14/06 12:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
A
Member
Shock,
I'm glad you read the Code .
Maybe you should buy one for the local inspector or your boss.
NM cable under the floor joist is not an interpretation, of Code but the wording of the code.
When I see it, it usually means DIY work and the installer didn't know the Code or own a drill.
Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
#124634 11/14/06 02:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 100
J
JJM Offline
Member
Alan, I agree about the NM routing, but even through the joists, the NM can still be used as clothes hangers.

Running boards are the best option.

Perhaps the basement will be finsihed, and this is only part of the rough inspection? Drop celing to be installed?

Joe

#124635 11/14/06 09:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
S
Member
Thanks for the kind words, Joe. It was taught to me when I first started out in this trade to do the work neatly. This way the inspector will see nice, neat work and won't have to look too hard for a violation because the workmanship is there. It made sense then, and it makes sense now. I stress this when teaching helpers on the job now too.

Alan, I worked for a contractor last year that fired me for drilling holes for all the homeruns in a basement the way the code suggests. He couldn't figure out what was taking me so long to complete the job and a week later I was gone. This guy also wore an inspectors hat as well as being a contractor in the state.

Go figure.

#124636 11/17/06 04:06 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 81
V
Member
Unless those A/C units are 36" from the building. The larger unit's (one on the right) disconnect does not meet spacing requirements. it doesn't look like they are 3 feet from the building to me.

Since you installed PVC conduit and a LB outside why wouldn't you just continue it to the panel and not use the cable. Just one elbow and a short piece of pipe

#124637 11/17/06 10:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
S
Member
Quote
Since you installed PVC conduit and a LB outside why wouldn't you just continue it to the panel and not use the cable. Just one elbow and a short piece of pipe


That's how I prefer to do it, but... "Ron, make sure you use up that extra SE we have laying around the shop for that service you're doing."

"Ok, boss."

As far as the spacing for the condensing units, wouldn't that be an issue for the HVAC man? It's very rare that I see CU's spaced further than 24" from the outside wall. Very rare.

#124638 11/18/06 10:56 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 81
V
Member
The unit on the left is fine because the disconnect in not behind the units, it is off to the side(not much but still off to the side) The inspectors around here would not pass the one on the right. No it is not an issue for the HVAC people. Both disconnects should have been to the left side of the units

Also our POCO would have insisted the riser go through the roof in IMC or RMC to keep the ice off their triplex unless they connected their wire on the gable end of the house.

Believe or not..... once I had an inspector tell me weatherheads are not approved installed horizontally

[This message has been edited by velect (edited 11-18-2006).]

#124639 11/19/06 04:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18
D
Member
250.104(C) for the steel in the basement

#124640 11/19/06 04:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Quote
250.104(C) for the steel in the basement

I have to disagree with that.

The steel in a typical basement does not make up the frame of a wood structure.

I also feel that isolated sections of steel are not going to become energized.

2002
Quote
250.104(C) Structural Steel. Exposed structural steel that is interconnected to form a steel building frame and is not intentionally grounded and may become energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with Table 250.66 and installed in accordance with 250.64(A), (B), and (E). The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 11-19-2006).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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