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Sealing the Ceiling #123368
03/27/06 07:41 PM
03/27/06 07:41 PM
electure  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,266
Fullerton, CA USA
Thanks to NORCAL for these:

How would you seal around these conduit penetrations?
The larger conduits are 4", and the ceiling is supposed to be rated.


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]

(The void runs the full length between the 1st and 2nd rows)

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 03-27-2006).]

Tools for Electricians:
Re: Sealing the Ceiling #123369
03/27/06 08:35 PM
03/27/06 08:35 PM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Block up the bottom and pour cement back in from above.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: Sealing the Ceiling #123370
03/27/06 09:04 PM
03/27/06 09:04 PM
H
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
Can't you use UL listed fire rated Caulk? They also have UL listed fire collars that shrink when they are heated up and provide protection.

Re: Sealing the Ceiling #123371
03/27/06 10:06 PM
03/27/06 10:06 PM
C
Celtic  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 361
NJ
Caulk it...seriously. Use the red hilti stuff you see in the top picture - pipe bank on right.

You can get a tube of caulk as big as a salami...or you can get the bucket and trowel it in...we do it all the time - by "we", I mean the apprentices and not "me" [Linked Image]


~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...
Re: Sealing the Ceiling #123372
03/27/06 10:08 PM
03/27/06 10:08 PM
C
Celtic  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 361
NJ
Just remembered...someone (maybe Hilti ??? , I forget)...makes a a sheet metal product that has the fireproofing sandwiched in it. It helps to lay the sandwich out BEFORE you run the pipes.

Just something to keep in the back of the cranium for next time.


~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...
Re: Sealing the Ceiling #123373
03/27/06 10:24 PM
03/27/06 10:24 PM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Stuff it...


Try a Internet search for--3M Fire Barrier Pillows


[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 03-27-2006).]

Re: Sealing the Ceiling #123374
03/28/06 06:10 AM
03/28/06 06:10 AM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
You guys all have money to 'burn' [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Yes all those products will work, but you can buy a few 100 lbs of 'crete for the price of a Hiti salami.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: Sealing the Ceiling #123375
03/28/06 02:26 PM
03/28/06 02:26 PM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Bob,
Quote
Yes all those products will work, but you can buy a few 100 lbs of 'crete for the price of a Hiti salami.

If the ceiling is required to be fire rated, can you just use cement and meet the requirements?
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Sealing the Ceiling #123376
03/28/06 03:01 PM
03/28/06 03:01 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Probably, Don. Not too many ceilings have a better fire rating than an equivalent amount of cement, mortar, joint compound, etc. And- with all those pipes passing through, so close to each other- the issue of bonding this patch to the ceiling is kind of moot!

Indeed, for most such penetrations, I suspect simply packing the spaces with fiberglass, then taping over, would probably pass the fire test.

I suppose that ultimately, its' an engineering call, based upon trade practices, comparison to specific ceiling designs, and the acceptance of the AHJ.

Not to be overlooked is the way the pipe itself will conduct heat through the wall, no matter how you seal it. There's only so much a patch can do.

Re: Sealing the Ceiling #123377
03/28/06 06:23 PM
03/28/06 06:23 PM
G
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 935
Chicago Illinois USA
Sealing with concrete will work okay...as long as neither the floor nor the conduits ever move. There's no way for anything to expand with concrete. I had problems with a bus riser bending in a 5 story building because they poured concrete around it.
Also, if you're using the red firestop goop be sure and check the installation instructions. The goop itself isn't the firestop; it's just a part of a UL Listed 'system'. If UL lists it with 2" of packing and 1" of goop, cramming in 3" of goop is a waste of money (that stuff ain't cheap).
I've seen foam or cardboard cut around the conduits to support the packing material and then the right amount of goop on top of it. That seems to pass muster in most places.


Ghost307
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