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#122420 - 11/05/05 04:00 PM Violation?  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
[Linked Image]

I think this is nice job.

(It is not my work. [Linked Image])

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

Tools for Electricians:

#122421 - 11/05/05 04:12 PM Re: Violation?  
sierra electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
Once again! SEPARATION OF PHASES!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ruins all the detail work. Installer should be shot!

Retracted this rant 11/05/05, 12:34PM

[This message has been edited by sierra electrician (edited 11-05-2005).]

[This message has been edited by sierra electrician (edited 11-05-2005).]


#122422 - 11/05/05 04:17 PM Re: Violation?  
sierra electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
On a second note, this photo belongs in the Violation section.

Retracted this one too. 11/05/05, 12:35PM

[This message has been edited by sierra electrician (edited 11-05-2005).]


#122423 - 11/05/05 04:21 PM Re: Violation?  
yaktx  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 288
Austin, Texas, USA
Provided the installation is in nonmetallic conduit for its entire length, does not enter a metallic wall at the other end, and the conduits are installed in close proximity to each other, this is permitted according to 300.5 (I), Exception #2 (2005 NEC).

I still prefer to group all phases, neutral and ground into each conduit. Start going down this road, and you get others thinking there's nothing wrong with doing this, say, in parallel runs of EMT. I don't know how many times I have brought 300.20 to the attention of another sparky only to get scoffed at, especially since I look kind of young.

Funny thing, though. The smaller wires landing on the grounded bus in the back of the gear: all taped gray. In some cases, you can size a neutral according to Table 250.122 if the neutral load does not exceed the ampacity thus derived, but where's the EGC?


#122424 - 11/05/05 04:32 PM Re: Violation?  
sierra electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
oh my bad sorry. I did not know the PVC rule. It's a beautiful job.

I guess I have always played it safe and never separated phases.

Rob


#122425 - 11/05/05 04:40 PM Re: Violation?  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
The EGC may be connected (hopefully [Linked Image]) somewhere else on the neutral bus.

To each their own but I can not agree with this.

Quote
Start going down this road, and you get others thinking there's nothing wrong with doing this


I like to think other electricians are capable of understanding anything I can understand, I am not a prodigy. [Linked Image]

There are 100s of rules we must know to do our job, 300.20 is just another one.

How many beginners would get to make decisions about this size installation anyway? [Linked Image]

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#122426 - 11/05/05 04:46 PM Re: Violation?  
sierra electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
Two questions:
What is the small conductor on the left zip tied to the frame?
What is the conduit on the right appearing to pass through this section?

Rob


#122427 - 11/05/05 04:51 PM Re: Violation?  
winnie  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 649
boston, ma
If there are no issues with inductive heating, I figure that separating the phases makes for a safer install. If something were to damage the insulation in one of the conduit sections, you won't be left with a phase-phase fault.

-Jon


#122428 - 11/05/05 05:00 PM Re: Violation?  
sierra electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
Good point winie.
But if there is no fault there is no way of knowing there is a problem, and the remaining parallel runs will have to take the added load. In which case there will be some overheating.

Rob


#122429 - 11/05/05 05:04 PM Re: Violation?  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
I am going to make some educated guesses here as I did not take the picture.

Quote
What is the small conductor on the left zip tied to the frame?


Very likely to be a neutral connection for control power of GFP unit or a voltage / power quality meter on the face of the gear.

Quote
What is the conduit on the right appearing to pass through this section?


Very likely it contains the wiring between the CTs in the switch gear and a remote electric meter.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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