ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area What's wrong with this Question?

Paul,

On occasion I have wandered into a DIY Forum out of curiosity and each time I can see things that can easily be misunderstood or taken out of context.

As an example, someone had asked about wire size for a 50A stove or Kiln circuit. Someone else mentioned that a table in their Engineering book had some 10 awg wire that was rated up to 70A! The person asking seemed to understand that this was probably special wire under special circumstances, but anyone else that came in at that point might not, because it was not explained in the thread.

Bill

Paul,

Oh yes, P-T vavles...

Forgot about those!

My water heater is a 1963 unit and ran without a P-T valve until I moved here.



Good thing the t-stats have never failed in the closed position!

Paul and Sparky66wv, 8 or 9 years ago,a young mother went to get water from the well house in Franklin N.C. after a snow storm ( I guess maybe the water lines into the house had frozen) and was killed when the PT exploded.

Sparky66wv, I did the same, and installed a pressure relief valve on mine.

There are other dangers that need to be considered in homes besides electric.

As Paul said, gas, residential boilers, etc...

The difference is, the average DIYer would 99 times out of 100 not take these on, yet not hesitate electrical.

I agree with Paul, that to stand face to face with someone you could better evaluate the persons ability, whereas on a forum you don't even know if the asker is going to do the work.

Maybe someone else is asking because the person who is going to do the work doesn't have the mechanical skills to type.

I think we all want to help others and that is where part of the problem lies. We are just a bunch of good people, uh, well you all are.

Roger



[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 07-23-2002).]

Let me throw my 2 cents in here also. Here in NJ there is a new law that can prosecute anyone who presents himself as a qualified electrician if he doesn't have a license. It is a fourth degree criminal offense. I have been doing electrical work for over 25 years, in my own business for over 15 years and I am a working inspector. (AHJ to be exact) As an AHJ I will question people when they say, "I am wiring my own house." Most times, they don't even though they say they do. They will have a friend or relative who will help them. I was told by my state that I can "ask" them questions, but I can't "interogate" them to see just how much they do know.

The one? thing that frosts me is when someone at 'Big Orange' gives 'advice?' that is wrong. I have tried to correct them and their response is 'I am just here to sell the stuff, it's not my house'.

I don't quite understand why certain materials don't require a license to purchase. In my area licenses and permits are required, so why should a Happy Harry be able to buy something they have no business installing? Where is the liability when 'Big Orange' sells something they know the homeowner should not be installing? How many homeowners will question the skills of an industry professional wearing the orange apron? Are they filling in from the paint department or do they know whats going on?

Sorry for the rant, I just don't like the black eye we get for every fire of electrical origin.

The hot-water system relief valve has become more of a concern here in recent years. For many years the most common system was a non-pressurized installation fed from a cistern in the attic. Pressurized systems (American-style) have really only just begun to catch on here in the last few years (I believe that the local water bye-laws prohibited their use in many areas until recently).

As Roger mentioned, frozen pipes can cause problems even without incompetent plumbing work. Every so often there is a case reported here where somebody has fired up the system after being away for a few weeks during a cold winter, and the system has exploded because the ice didn't have time to thaw before the cylinder reached its critical pressure.

Bill,
The cable rating question is a problem I have with many of our big DIY chain stores. Along the cable racks, they frequently include the ampacity (not a word that's used over here!) along with the size, price, stock code etc. They always seem to just quote the absolute maximum rating, i.e. the one which in the IEE Regs. corresponds to a single cable in free air.

I have yet to see any of them explain that the cable may need to be derated for ambient temperature, cable bundling, enclosure in thermal insulation, etc.

I feel especially strongly about this, because these days our cables are already rated much more liberally than in the past.


[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 07-24-2002).]

Bill,

That quoted question is defintely a head spinner!
I get these types of Q's here and there, and they always catch me off guard. I'll gladly answer this, plus add some extra stuff with it for good measure - but not lead the person into any " I give you my blessings - go ahead and try this yourself" answers.
I just simply answer the question with more questions until either the subject is covered [goal], or the person is blown away [not the goal]. The latter tends to give the person second thoughts about even trying to mess with something, which sucks for both the question asker and for me! [exeptions: unqualified person/s and tasks beyond their capabilities: ie; service upgrades, new subpanels, pool / spa hookups, etc.].

Now when the same question is thrown at me as a statement, not a question, and in an arrogant fashion - such as:
"I AM going to install a 20/1 GFCI Square D QO120GFI breaker in my FPE or Bulldog panel to run my new 50 amp 240 VAC spa, AND feed it with 2 # 16's because " At 220, it cuts the power in half", let ME tell YOU how to do other stuff"
then it's better to run away and hide!
I don't know about others, but I personally cannot win with these determined jokers at all!!!

Scott S.E.T.

P.S. This is directed towards persons in our trade asking me either the questions, or spewing forth statements of stupidity with arrogant dicketry

Had to edit the message and add this.

S.E.T.

[This message has been edited by Scott35 (edited 07-25-2002).]