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#110894 - 07/25/06 11:08 PM Bulbs Above Ceiling  
Admin  Offline

Administrator
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,460
NY, USA
Quote
Home owner decided to install a drop ceiling and wanted the soft glow of lights above the cloth material that he used. Fortunately he was stopped before the soft glow became an open flame.

Alan Nadon
[Linked Image]


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#110895 - 07/26/06 06:47 AM Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling  
Ron  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 582
White Plains, NY
Alan,
Who determines the distance required from an incandescent bulb to combustibles? I'm not familiar with an easy referenced code to indicate a violation. I have a wall sconce that is sometimes very close to the curtains (depending on the position of the curtain), but I'm not sure it's a violation.


Ron

#110896 - 07/26/06 06:58 AM Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
Ron,
Does it have to be an electrical violation to constitute disconnecting a thing like this?.
Common-sense would tell me that a thing like this can only end in tears.


#110897 - 07/26/06 01:24 PM Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling  
mxslick  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 803
Atomic City, ID USA
I would think the use of open-cleat lampholders, what appears to be zip cord and the nice flying splice from the ceiling box is more than enough to warrant the red sticker. Plenty of electrical reasons for a disconnect here. [Linked Image]

And since there is always the possibility of one of those incand. bulbs shattering and dropping hot glass and maybe sparks on the cloth, come on. What more do you need? [Linked Image]

A better solution would be an enclosed luminare, wired with proper methods and preferably flourescent. That would give the desired effect with minimal or no hazards.

edited to add:

And last time I checked, open cleat lampholders were hard to get and somewhat pricy. It probably would have cost less to do it right anyway.

[This message has been edited by mxslick (edited 07-26-2006).]


Stupid should be painful.

#110898 - 07/26/06 01:37 PM Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling  
energy7  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 58
Oxnard, CA, USA
Regarding the clearance issue, the closet code section (2002 - art. 410.8) would probably be a good place to start.
Aren't the distances specified because of "distance to combustibles" and "protection from physical damage" issues?


#110899 - 07/26/06 05:05 PM Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling  
Ron  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 582
White Plains, NY
I'm not saying that the installation method is a good one, I'm suggesting that a keyless lampholder doesn't seem to be a violation. I was not able to see the zip cord or the splice without a box. Clearly those violations should be tagged, but the lampholder itself .... I'm not sure that is a technical violation of the NEC. That area is not a closet. [Linked Image]


Ron

#110900 - 07/27/06 05:41 AM Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling  
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,405
Vienna, Austria
I claim that light installation (or at least the stuff used) is close to 100 years old! That's twisted cloth lamp cord! That stuff belongs into a museum!


#110901 - 07/27/06 08:42 AM Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling  
mamills  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
Wharton, Texas, USA
Ranger: As strange as it may sound, that stuff is still available here. Our city recently completed a full remodeling/rebuilding project of a turn of the century railroad depot (the last century, that is [Linked Image]). The electrical system in the building was completely replaced, but the lighting fixtures throughout consist of the traditional (for that time) bare light bulbs in new brass sockets hanging from the 12' high ceilings with that twisted cloth covered rubber "drop cord" stuff. Really strange in a remodel where everything alse is completely code compliant - boxes, conduit, receptacles, circuit breakers, etc.

They were going for "atmosphere", I guess...

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 07-27-2006).]


#110902 - 07/28/06 06:25 AM Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling  
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,405
Vienna, Austria
Yeah, you still get it here too, but the price is _real_ steep! So with that kind of job I'd guess old work.


#110903 - 07/28/06 02:20 PM Re: Bulbs Above Ceiling  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
Check NEC 2005 Section 110.3 (A) 5
Lampholders are not luminaires or else 410.65 would be the place to start.
Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

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