ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Violation Photo Forum Panel Identification

Steve, the day will come when all new houses have to have wiring schematics and a bill of materials. Sparkies may not agree with this "over the top" practise but I think that as house wiring gets more complex and compliance liability becomes more important, its inevitable.

I think the demand for this will come from Insurers, architects and regulatory bodies.

As an electrician I would welcome any sort of aid to fault-finding. Wouldn't it be nice to turn up to a job at a house that had accurate documentation of all the services ?

Of course this means a whole heap of extra work for tradesmen. More work is desirable though isn't it ? And if documentation is made mandatory then explaining the extra cost to customers is easy.

Lets hear some thoughts on this from those that it would affect.

The labeling wouldn't be all that difficult to do- we practically have to do it anyhow. But it WOULD become a big liability to both label and maintain; the first time someone secures breaker #5 because it's on the marking and gets a shock because he forgot to frisk and it was actually on breaker #6, people will get sued. But man oh man it helps in lifecycle work! A little extra drafting dollars up front can save untold man-days in trying to trace circuits out later.

When the electrician comes after the fact, it will be easy for him to red-line changes he's made to the drawings; even easier if an electronic copy is left (I saw a $10 thumb drive left in a PLC box yesterday with all the docs and software for the PLC on it; what a great idea!). Whether or not you can get the building contractors to create the installation drawings up-front (and the electrician to red-line his deviations!) with no cost benefit to him is another story entirely.

[This message has been edited by SteveFehr (edited 12-09-2005).]

Steve,
This isn't a personal attack on you Steve, but I thought that that was why they made test equipment?.
If a person isn't competent enough to use such gear, should they even be messing with electrical circuits?.

Who the heck is going to enforce such a draconian measure? That's just nuts, IMO.

Paperwork does not equal safety.

Trumpy, I come from a niche of the industry where the circuits are so complex that they MUST be labeled or you will NEVER find out where it's going; even when they are properly labeled, you still need a drawing to find where the heck the other end is supposed to be. Only careful adherence to the drawings and labeling keep a handle on the problem. We've had people get *killed* because of mislabled circuits and pipes. Also, test equipment fails when switches and valves are involved. As such, there are procedures in place that involve not just looking at labels but positive verification (through various methods) before anyone can so much as start work. Only the very last one is the frisking, but electricians can easily get lazy and complacent...

George: Inspectors, that's who!

"We've had people get *killed* because of mislabled circuits and pipes."

I don't see how you can blame mislabeled circuits for people being killed. I don't know what they teach in engineering school but the first thing most electricians learn is to test everything before you touch it. If someone relies on circuit labeling to keep them alive then they are either an idiot or they are not qualified to work on that piece of equipment.

When going into a panel I figure that one of two things will happen.
1. There will be no panel schedule
2. If there is one, it will be inaccurate.
They are usually at best a general guide, and anyone that doesn't verify the information is a fool.

I've got one customer that does require any modification to the system to be documented by red lining the complete, accurate, up to date blueprints that they keep. Working there is a pleasure. I wish they were all that way.

I like the use of pencil on panel schedules. That way old info can be erased and new info can be read by the next guy.
I can't stand the use of the word "new" when describing loads. Things don't stay new for any appreciable amount of time, and an electrician may not need to read the panel schedule for years.

George, I'm not saying that documentation should replace safety, but rather documentation should augment safety.

The regulatory bodies that already govern the electrical industry will police these documentary requirements.

Sometimes the word "Draconian" is used unwisely. Earlier this century a government registered electrical inspector may have been viewed as "Draconian"