ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
by gfretwell. 03/24/18 02:10 AM
Recall Notice Kidde Smoke Alarms
by dougwells. 03/22/18 01:40 PM
Recall notice: Southwire wi-fi wall switches
by sparkyinak. 03/15/18 06:03 PM
Goodman Manufacturing Recalls Modular Blowers
by Admin. 03/13/18 10:40 PM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 11 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Blank as Panel Part #109706
11/24/05 09:26 AM
11/24/05 09:26 AM
electure  Offline
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,265
Fullerton, CA USA
Forwarded by Joe Tedesco:

Joe, my apprentice in my second year class came across this situation where a 4 square blank cover was used in a piece of
switchgear to support a 480 volt breaker to the bus.

[Linked Image]

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Blank as Panel Part #109707
11/24/05 10:06 AM
11/24/05 10:06 AM
iwire  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
It looks fine to me.

It is simply a bracket to hold the tail end of a breaker, it does not carry current or provide a fault path it is most likely stronger than the factory part.

I would have ordered the correct part but if I was in a panel and saw this I would not worry about it or recommend it be replaced.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Re: Blank as Panel Part #109708
11/24/05 09:14 PM
11/24/05 09:14 PM
electricman2  Offline
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 269
Thomasville, NC USA
Blank covers are pretty thick metal. I wonder how he made that offset bend?

Re: Blank as Panel Part #109709
11/25/05 12:18 AM
11/25/05 12:18 AM
NORCAL  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 878
If they had a brake around, no problem to bend cover.

Re: Blank as Panel Part #109710
11/25/05 04:48 AM
11/25/05 04:48 AM
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
"support a 480 volt breaker to the bus"?

Was this an actuall electrical connection? If so, no way!

Non current carrying support, hmmm OK....

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Blank as Panel Part #109711
11/25/05 03:58 PM
11/25/05 03:58 PM
PCBelarge  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
I do not see how this is okay at all???????

Professionals find a way to make it work, but not this way. Isn't that why we are professionals? It physically works, but this is not right. Supply houses and manufacturers are in business to supply this type of material, so we can get it done............OH WAIT.... we don't have the time to do it with the proper material, lets see, HMMMMMM,lets see what we can do to make it work.

This is a problem with the "culture" of our industry. It works, so it is okay... and we wonder why it is so hard to try and raise our industry back up to where it should be.

And the guy who does want to do it properly will have a hard time convincing the customer that it has to be done properly, as the next guy is ready to do it CHEAP & QUICK.

I can see how this culture change is going to be an uphill battle for quite some time to be.

Pierre Belarge
Re: Blank as Panel Part #109712
11/25/05 04:12 PM
11/25/05 04:12 PM
Lostazhell  Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,431
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
Under a bolted fault condition would those 2 button head screws be enough to hold that breaker tight if things started "jumping around"? I could see this for a temp fix maybe, but I'd certainly seek out the proper mounting hardware to keep things within UL specs...

Was the breaker even designed for the gear it was installed with?


Re: Blank as Panel Part #109713
11/25/05 04:20 PM
11/25/05 04:20 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Funny...I was just working on some gear that looked like that.

In my task, I was hindered by the little detail that the maker had stopped making his Fine Pieces of Engineering. While I was able to locate the breakers I needed, I was not able to obtain the necessary hardware.
So, in my case, I spent a pile of money having a machine shop duplicate existing hardware. Not only did I need plates like the one fabricated here, I needed aluminum standards for connecting the breaker to the busses.

This gear, btw, had 1/4-20 bolts as the typical connectors.

[This message has been edited by renosteinke (edited 11-25-2005).]

[This message has been edited by renosteinke (edited 11-25-2005).]

Re: Blank as Panel Part #109714
11/27/05 01:58 PM
11/27/05 01:58 PM
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
"Non current carrying support, [begrudging]hmmm OK...."

Personally, I would have a part remanufactured if no longer made by the original manufacturer. There are places I could attempt to locate original parts as well. And a shop I can get anything I want made, and they often have factory drawings for the equipment parts.

If it were a current carrying part... This would not be acceptable! Non-current carrying, I wouldn't do it, but don't see this a danger.

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Blank as Panel Part #109715
11/27/05 04:23 PM
11/27/05 04:23 PM
mxslick  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 803
Atomic City, ID USA
Don't like this at all. Too sloppy and despite the thickness of the blank, inadequate mounting by those tiny screws.

In reality I would be far more concerned by all the metal shavings on that bottom rail!

Stupid should be painful.


2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Member Spotlight
Posts: 28
Joined: February 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 5
Admin 4
Popular Topics(Views)
244,895 Are you busy
182,008 Re: Forum
172,041 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.032s Queries: 14 (0.005s) Memory: 1.0118 MB (Peak: 1.1901 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-03-25 05:29:44 UTC