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What's Wrong With This Service?? #109621
11/14/05 10:39 PM
11/14/05 10:39 PM
Admin  Offline
OP
Administrator
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,525
NY, USA
Quote
Found this on a pre-purchase inspection!

yaktx
[Linked Image]

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: What's Wrong With This Service?? #109622
11/14/05 10:55 PM
11/14/05 10:55 PM
E
Elviscat  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 214
Seattle Washington USA
Well to start with the obvious, unprotected conductors dubble-lugged to the service conductors, one is white and not re-identified, romex entering with no protector through an unsealed knockout in an apparently 3R enclousure, probably a couple more I'm missing. And there's the non-code issues of neatness and the fact that it's a FPE

-Will


[This message has been edited by Elviscat (edited 11-14-2005).]

Re: What's Wrong With This Service?? #109623
11/15/05 02:05 AM
11/15/05 02:05 AM
S
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 333
So San Francisco CA
Looks like the EGC and grounded conductor from the NM are under one screw on the neutral bar.

steve


Steve
Re: What's Wrong With This Service?? #109624
11/15/05 09:25 AM
11/15/05 09:25 AM
S
sstrick  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 6
Independence, MO USA
The breakers are upside-down; an unused breaker in the ON position; no seperation of grounded and grounding bars (must be a sub panel since no main breaker!); tons of others I'm SURE.

Re: What's Wrong With This Service?? #109625
11/15/05 09:33 AM
11/15/05 09:33 AM
M
mamills  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
Wharton, Texas, USA
Yaktx: Where's the EGC connected, since it doesn't look like it's headed for the ground?

Was the dead-front cover in place when you got there, or is it off for the inspection/pic? I wish I had a dime for every panel I've seen with an AWOL cover [Linked Image].

Any ideas where the double-luggeds go?

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 11-15-2005).]

Re: What's Wrong With This Service?? #109626
11/15/05 07:25 PM
11/15/05 07:25 PM
H
HLCbuild  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 209
Herndon,Va USA
As sstrick says (must be a subpanel ...)If it is, where is the insulated grounded conductor and seperate neutral bar?

Re: What's Wrong With This Service?? #109627
11/15/05 08:15 PM
11/15/05 08:15 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Interesting panel.

The "down for off" requirement hasn't been around all that long; I have a Sq D panel that was set up as this one ie; that is, intended to have two horizontal rows of breakers.

Which is what I am curious about: Where did all those breakers go? And why use half-width breakers in an "empty" panel?

Re: What's Wrong With This Service?? #109628
11/15/05 08:45 PM
11/15/05 08:45 PM
C
Celtic  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 361
NJ
An easier question would be:
What's RIGHT with this service?

LOL


~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...
Re: What's Wrong With This Service?? #109629
11/15/05 09:58 PM
11/15/05 09:58 PM
E
Elviscat  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 214
Seattle Washington USA
This could be a main, no breaker is required if there are less then six breakers (4 full sized single poles, 2 double poles), plus the three wire feed and the EGC seems to me to indicate a main panel, perhaps you could clear this up yaktx?

Re: What's Wrong With This Service?? #109630
11/15/05 10:21 PM
11/15/05 10:21 PM
Y
yaktx  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 288
Austin, Texas, USA
Quote
Yaktx: Where's the EGC connected, since it doesn't look like it's headed for the ground?


I assume you are referring to the GEC, meandering off to the right in an upward direction? The answer is nowhere. The house was replumbed and the plumber never replaced the ground clamp. The deadfront was there.

Nearly all Stab-Lok panels had one row of upside down breakers, which was legal at the time.

The lack of a main breaker does not mean this is a subpanel. I assure you the meter was right above this panel. In this case, it is service equipment which is in violation of 408.36(A). This service appears to be from the '70s, and my vintage NEC collection tells me it was illegal then, too. Nevertheless, many such installations were approved in my area during this time.

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