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#101351 03/13/07 06:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
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But gfretwell, even if it were over 50%, dishwashers aren't fastened in place!

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#101352 03/13/07 12:19 PM
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G
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Screwed into the cabinet face and connected to the plumbing is not fastened in place?


Greg Fretwell
#101353 03/14/07 06:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
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Mine certainly isn't screwed into anything- hell, it has wheels! It would be a real stretch to consider it "fastened", when the only connetion is a NEMA plug and the plumbing equivilent.

#101354 03/14/07 07:47 PM
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That is a portable appliance like a toaster. You can plug that in a counter top receptacle.


Greg Fretwell
#101355 03/15/07 10:14 AM
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G
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One would think that professionals would agree on this simple question.

It is not like disposals and dishwashers have suddenly appeared.

#101356 03/15/07 10:54 AM
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G
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I think we are just having a discussion about the incongruities in the NEC. We have proved that you can find compelling language for either case, Since these are simply appliances that may not even be present when the decisions are made and the inspection performed, things like "nameplate" may not really mean anything. As a design choice, sharing these may not be a good idea since larger appliances may replace the cheapest thing the builder might choose to install but I am not sure there is really an unambiguous code case to be made. I bet I could get a fight started at the IAEI meeting tomorrow, with different jurisdictions having opposite opinions. The safest answer is always "what does the AHJ say?"


Greg Fretwell
#101357 03/15/07 05:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 356
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I though the NEC required two separate circuits.
It is a good design to have two circuits, but for the sake of discussion, two circuits are NOT REQUIRED PER NEC?????? confused

Edward


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#101358 03/15/07 06:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Cat Servant
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The NEC requires kitchens to have two 'small appliance' circuits for countertop use, and that these receptacles be GFCI protected. These circuits may also serve other locations in the kitchen, pantry, etc.

The NEC is silent as to what's under the counter. Outlets there can be on these required circuits, but they don't have to be. Nor are they requires to be GFCI protected.

A common practice is to serve the dishwasher / disposal from the first receptacle on one of these circuits. In that instance, part of the duplex receptacle will be switch controlled (for the disposal). The circuit then continues to the second receptacle, above the counter, which is the GFCI that protects the rest of the circuit.

Something similar is done with the other required circuit, only the refrigerator is served first, "before" the GFCI.

I believe this meets the requirements of the code; good design is another matter altogether. I've become accustomed to massive kitchens, with more electrical gadgetry than the bridge of the Starship Enterprise. Besides the usual counter, there is an island, a bar, a breakfast nook, a walk-in pantry, a prep / wash area, a wine cooler, a refrigerator that is larger than a Yugo, a trash compactor, a toaster-oven (built in), a microwave big enough to dry your laundry, and enough lights to perform surgery.
Two circuits? Closer to two panels! But, I drift.

Unless you have a booster heater with that dishwasher, there's plenty of room for a disposal on that circuit.

Of course, there IS the Tim-Taylor disposal, with the Briggs & Stratton 2 cycle engine ... laugh

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