ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Do you know your Building Code?

Here in Indiana we have a state code, which is mostly NEC, nfpa. Then there are the local inspectors that by law are supposed to go by the states adopted code. They have there own code although it is not written down anywhere. Nevertheless, it is there code. If you get my drift. It is different in every city, county, town that we have. Moreover, can be very frustrating. Now they do have the power to adopt their owen code but they must send it to the state for revue and the state has the final say whether it is to be law in that town. but most don't ever send it to the state because they know it will be rejected. Some cities it can be very hard to not get a red tag. No matter how hard you try and in others it seems you cant do no wrong. Take Gary for instance the inspector there insist on a gfci on washers and dryers even though more than 75% of them have to be later replaced with regular receptacles because of nascent tripping. In addition, several cities make us run the gec in conduit no matter what so this makes us use many pull boxes to keep from going over the max of 360 deg. of bends. Another city doesn't allow romex or N/M type wiring even though the state says all of these things are not required but we have to submit a complaint in writing to the state ahj, and he will send the notice of complaint to both partys, with his opinion. and if the local inspector and the contractor can't reach an agreement then he will step in and make a ruling. Then you can guarantee that you will have to fight to ever work in that jurisdiction ever again. Even though this is not right, we have to do it or be tied up in a large legal battle that can last for years. you can sue but Indiana has a 300,000 cap on law suits against any local units of government. so in the mean time your out millions from not being able to work in the area so they get away with it. Because nobody ever sues. Just do not make waves as they put it. Some times, I feel like I am in china or Russia before the fall. And I thought we do not have dictators, but here in Indiana we do. But to survive we just go on and do what they tell us to do they only time I did stand up to a inspector it was over a safety Issue over leaving a hot panel cover off. Until he inspects the rough in. many home owners will bring there children to the job site when nobody is around and they get involved with looking at the house more then watching the kids, and some do get hurt by nails or some thing, but Ill be dammed if its going to be by anything that I have done. Or because of a lazy inspector that wont take a panel cover off.

Here in my town in Tennessee, we have a city building inspector, he deals with structure and framing, setbacks and zoning regs. we have a separate plumbing inspector, a rep from the fire dept, he says life safety issues, smoke detectors, sprinklers, exit lights, handrails for stairs, landings at exit doors, He does on occasion try to critique electrical installations, but on numerous occasions he has been reminded that this is neither in his job description nor his field of expertise. And we have a state electrical inspector, Non of these people work together of make any attempt to coordinate their activities, Aside from the state electrical inspector, the other guys are like watching a chinese fire drill. One of thems underworked one of them is overpaid and one is part time.

If you leave the city limits, and do any building in the county, all you have is the county health dept. to approve a septic system, and the state electrical inspector, for one rough in, and the final. There are no building code officals in the surrounding counties.

So, I bet you guys would like working over here with no inspections, right??

Paul,
inspections will vary greatly depending on where you are here. one things for sure, it's hard to be competitive & compliant with them....

ahhh....oops! i meant to say 'without' them....sorry.

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 05-31-2002).]

Paul,

I think that inspections are good for everyone involved and would not even suggest doing without them.

I have seen many questions asked (and have probably asked some of my own) about things related to our trade that are not specified in the NEC. It seems that many people are not aware of where these rules come from, and some that do, will often assume that it is the same everywhere.

When someone asks "where do I have to put Smoke Detectors?" I don't see how a correct answer could be given without knowing more details including their Building Codes and any local amendments.

Pointing to an NFPA document or a specific Building code for direction on something might be a help, but might not provide the correct answer to someone's particular situation. This might be because their area uses a different code or might have the same one with amendments. I don't think that this is always realized during discussions in Forums such as this. So, I am wondering how many people actually know what their codes are?

Also, I think it is common to think of the Electrical Inspector to be strictly an NEC enforcer and that is probably incorrect.

Bill

Good God Gertie!!
We aren't elecricians out here.
Most everyone must be a GC...in a way.
All the fire, life, safety stuff always falls on us, and is at the end of the job.
The alarms etc., become our problem when we get close to the end...they never give us any info despite massive RFI's at the beginning, and throughout a project.
It seems the GC's are able to compress the electrician's time on the schedule into 1/10th of what it actually takes.
Sorry to be so Grumpy...S

Scott, I feel your pain! I am doing a design build right now that has to be finaled the first week of August. The design is not complete yet, we don't have a building permit yet and every day wasted is one less day to do the job. Because of course, the on air date (TV Station) Does not change. We have $1.8million worth of electrical work to do and it is June 1st tomorrow! You know who is going to be the bad guy at the end of this one. <----(Me every day for the next two months)
........Back to the subject,
Every jurisdiction in California is supposed to be following the CBC. (California Building Code) This came about because of contractors complaining about all the different requirements in all the different jurisdictions around here. I don't have a copy myself because I don't have the $100 + it costs right now. Most of the people I work with don't know it exists! It is supposed to "standardize" all the building codes across the state. I think we are along way from this becoming a reality though, as every jurisdiction you work in is different. I don't even try to keep up with NFPA 101 as every fire alarm system I install is different. Every job has different requirements. Every jurisdiction different pet peeves, so on and so fourth. I try to be an expert in all electrical related thing but sometimes you are better of just knowing who to call!

PS: California's Governor signed state licensing for electricians into law on the 29th. (More money for the coufers or safer installations for the public. You be the judge)

Grumpy,

Where've you been?
No, I'm not suggesting that you learn the whole building Code

I must also admit to relying on those who know about such things when I need answers.
I'm just wondering how many people realize that these 'extra' rules can, or do exist in their State or local Building Codes?

You Californians (is that a word?) seem to be quite aware that other rules exist outside the NEC that might affect what you do. I can tell you for sure that is not the case everywhere.

It took some effort on my part to even find out what edition of the NEC is presently adopted by our State and the answer was a surprise to everyone I told including some local Inspectors. There seems to be a lack of communication somewhere.

Bill

Bill,
"All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy"
(I have become the dullest, not to be confused with the airport where George worked)
I wish I could say I sailed around the World, or had been marlin fishing, but truth is I've been picking up the pieces for the company...which is to be no more. The 3 owners hate each other, and there are only 2 competent electricians left (down from a crew of 40). Should last 'til August.
The O/T's great (until the govt takes it away), and I've been guaranteed a job in the future.
Last night I decided I need to play a little more. ECN is a form of relaxation, unwinding, and learning for me. I'm not quite so grumpy this morning, and I've got the day off, but have to pull an all-nighter on Sunday, and a demo Mon morn.
I need to get my priorities straight

Thanks to you all...S

Scott [electure],

That really sucks!!!

I wish there was an opening within the Company I am at now, but we're OK for workers per projects [and there's a lot of projects too!]. If something comes along, I'll give 'ya the heads up.

As to the subject at hand, like Nick was saying, California has Title 24 [California Codes for Construction]. CBC is the Building Code, and most of the compentent field sparkys will have some knowledge of this - along with part 6 [CEC, the Electrical Code].

Just ask a [qualified] Commercial Journeyman two questions:

<OL TYPE=1>

[*] Can you strap your fixture whips and other conduit runs in T-Bar ceilings to any old T-Bar wire??? (CBC),
and

[*] Why do you have "A/B" switching??? (CEC).
</OL>

There's a considerable amount of CBC that many [Electricians] in the field do not know, mostly because they do not have to deal with it. It's mostly in the designing areas [like plancheck, etc.].

Knowledge of the most basic of Building Codes is [IMHO] a necessity for any qualified Journeyman.
Knowledge of the other trades' basic codes is a great addition to one's knowledge bank.

Working with General Contractors for such a long time has placed me in the position to "Observe" and be "Subjected To" more than just the basic codes of other trades and the Building Codes.
That's one good thing about being in the position I am and have been in with "The Other Company"!
[sounds like "The Other Women" ]

Scott S.E.T.