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#100507 11/24/06 01:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18
D
Member
so you say its a code install. if a sparky has to work in the sub and wants to shut it down you have to throw the main? not a good install. for a $20 breaker is it not better to have a 2 pole breaker on the feeder to the sub? i still dont think this satisfies 240.21 as each ungrounded conductor requires an ocpd at the point it gets its supply. the main is a ocpd for the entire panel and acting as the service main not a feeder ocpd

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#100508 11/24/06 12:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Morning Danny.

Quote
if a sparky has to work in the sub and wants to shut it down you have to throw the main?

Yes

Quote
not a good install.

I agree

Quote
for a $20 breaker is it not better to have a 2 pole breaker on the feeder to the sub?

I agree.

But this is an NEC forum and I am going to give an NEC answer to the best of my ability.

Quote
i still dont think this satisfies 240.21 as each ungrounded conductor requires an ocpd at the point it gets its supply.

The overcurrent protection for the feeder is at it's point of supply, no part of the 2 AWG conductor is ahead of the circuit breaker.

Quote
the main is a ocpd for the entire panel and acting as the service main not a feeder ocpd

There is no NEC restriction preventing us from using that breaker for both.

Current is current, the service main is as capable of protecting the feeder as the panel.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#100509 11/24/06 05:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
A
Member
Sounds backwards but, I would pass it.
Remember to label the "Main" as the Service Disconnect.
Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
#100510 11/25/06 03:28 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline OP
Member
The choice of not adding a breaker for the feeder is mitigated by this:
  • The current panel is an early 60's CH with 120 on one side, 120 on the other - there are only two 240 slots int he panel
  • the current breaker is a 4-position 100 "beige" CH taking up both 240 slots - the clips on the other side of the breaker act as the hold-down for this back-fed breaker feeding the panel.
  • Using a smaller 100 breaker for two slots would offer no hold-down for the main.
  • Changing this units main panel would trigger the changing of the whole service for the multi-unit building. (Something they want to do anyway, but not yet.)
  • The building is still a TIC, but will need some heavy work during condo conversion soon - to include this and the rest of the units and house metering.


Either way the Inspector is working from opinion rather than code IMO, and on my customers behalf, I get the fight for it....


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#100511 11/25/06 01:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,770
Likes: 13
G
Member
Vote me with Bob, this is a legal feeder with a splice and the tap rules are not applied because the conductor is protected at it's ampacity.


Greg Fretwell
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