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#100248 - 11/06/06 09:31 AM can lights (fasteners)  
Reel-Break  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 178
nc
OK We put in some can lighting and used some roofing nails to secure them to joist.They have the little tabs that knock in that help hold them in place a co-worker says these are sufficient to mount but I disagreed and also use screws or nails in this case I used roofing nails along with the metal tabs that nail into the wood.Now another guy says this is not ok because they are for roofing and can`t be used as can or fixture supports. Well does he have a point? Kinda figure he`s right but those cans are not falling down besides the halo brand use a similar nail?


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#100249 - 11/06/06 09:37 AM Re: can lights (fasteners)  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote
They have the little tabs that knock in that help hold them in place a co-worker says these are sufficient to mount


I think that is a heck of a chance to take as if they let go it is a real hassle to get the trim in later.

Quote
I used roofing nails along with the metal tabs that nail into the wood.Now another guy says this is not ok because they are for roofing and can`t be used as can or fixture supports.


That is crazy, you may use whatever fastener you like, there is no such item as a listed nail for fixture supports.

I have used staples, nails, drywall screws and on most of our jobs Tek screws for metal studs.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#100250 - 11/06/06 10:08 AM Re: can lights (fasteners)  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
The little tabs are sufficient only to hold the thing in place while you use a real fastener.

You're nailing into the side of s beam. It is quite possible for an ordinary nail to pass all the way through- meaning there is length you don't use. The fixtures also have little weight, which means you don't need a whole lot of thickness either.

While I prefer to use screws - much easier if you need to re-position the can a bit- I see nothing wrong with using roofing nails.


#100251 - 11/06/06 01:18 PM Re: can lights (fasteners)  
Zapped  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 482
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
I use the tabs to hold the thing in place after aligning it to my marks. Then I use 1 1/4" drywall screws at all four points on drywall - techs on metal.

You can use nails if you like, but I do a lot of custom work where the client (unfortunately) sometimes wants to deviate from the plans and make changes. Nails become a nightmare at that point.

I would never recommend using just the holder-tabs to secure a fixture. They are completely insufficient and tend to pop right out when you slide the fixture into place for final adjustment.


#100252 - 11/06/06 01:21 PM Re: can lights (fasteners)  
George Little  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
I see a lot of electricians use Romex staples. Saves carrying nails and staples both in the pouch.


George Little

#100253 - 11/06/06 03:39 PM Re: can lights (fasteners)  
Zapped  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 482
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
I meant to say I use drywall screws on WOOD, and techs on metal. Sorry...


#100254 - 11/06/06 05:09 PM Re: can lights (fasteners)  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,103
Estero,Fl,usa
We used 3/4" pan head #10 sheet metal screws for most things like this. You can coax them into a metal stud through drywall and they are not coming out of wood. Most of our low voltage stuff was on 3/4 plywood. You do need a drill/driver for the metal studs but I assume most guys use them anyway. I used to buy them by the 5lb box at the fastener store and split them up with the guys.
They provine a lot better bearing surface than the bugle head deck/drywall screw.


Greg Fretwell

#100255 - 11/11/06 12:54 AM Re: can lights (fasteners)  
DougW  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
North Chicago, IL
I've always understood that the drive in straps (punched sections of the rails/plates) were for temporary use until the final location was determined; then it was intended to be secured by nails or screws. That's why there are multiple holes in those plates.

The only ones that don;t require additional fastening are the cans (Juno?) with the nail pre-attached at the factory.

IMHO I don't care for roofing nails. While they're handy (big head, short length), I had an issue with them once. I ran out of 1 1/4" DW screws, so I grabbed a few roofing nails from a can on the site.

I'll be damned if more than half of the heads didn't pop off before we were done at the site two weeks later.

As I went through re-fastening the boxes I'd mounted, I wound up swearing off roofing nails as a result.

That said, I don't think it's a Code violation per se, as the Code doesn't specify fastening means, it only specifies the distance the fastener can protrude into the interior of the box IIRC.

Of course, there's the inspector who failed a buddy for not using wood screws to mount the various boxes throughout the job (he used 1 1/4" DW's); the inspector fell back on "I'm the AHJ" when he couldn't produce an actual Code ref.

ETA - It seems the Halo lights use a stronger metal for their nails than the stuff used for roofing nails.

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 11-10-2006).]


#100256 - 11/15/06 09:22 PM Re: can lights (fasteners)  
steve ancient apprentice  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 169
west springfield,mass
Roofing nails not a problem though i prefer to use drywall screws. Like the other if you have to reposition the can after mounting with nails its a heck of a time to reposition them. No problem at all if you want to use nails but I wouldnt.


#100257 - 11/15/06 11:12 PM Re: can lights (fasteners)  
Celtic  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 361
NJ
Another vote for screws...easier to mount one handed (I don't even bother with the built-in tab)...and easier to reposition/relocate at the customer's expense - I mean wish.


~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...

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