luke, thanks for the reply. i have worked on plenty of hot circuits myself. in fact when i used to be a licensed journeyman hvac repairman it seems i worked on stuff hot even more often than i do now as a master electrician (troubleshooting problems on a daily basis). so i'm not a stranger to it. and yeah, once i found where the circuit was fed at i did kill it at a splice as you suggested. i was new on the job and had no idea where the breaker was to turn it off (this was a big fed gov't building)- that's why i kindly asked my subforeman to do it. i did get shocked that day re-making that splice (5 12-2 mc's is kind of hard to splice together even when it isn't hot) not bad though, just enough to upset me. i learned a lesson that day, don't take no for an answer. i've been with the company over a year now and have stood my ground more times than not. seems people respect that. i'm a subforeman myself now.