Originally Posted by mikesh
Originally Posted by resqcapt19
I don't see AFCIs being very effective on any wiring system that does not include an EGC. It appears to me that most of the trips are from the ground fault circuit and not the fancy arc signature circuit. The GFP trips with a 30 to 50 mA fault, the arc signature circuit doesn't even look for faults with currents less than 5 amps.

Ground fault protection works on ungrounded circuits so the EGC is not required but does improve the performance of GF devices. To my knowledge all GF detection works by totalling the current out and the current returning. they must add vectorallyl to 0 or within the trip setting of the device 6ma for GFCI and Usually 30ma for a GFI device.
The series arc detection requires around a 5 amp threshold and arc signature. That may not have very much GF leakage and I suppose if the parallel arc detection is phase to phase you could be correct about not working without the arc signature. The fact that the current might travel through the studs or other path will activate the GF protection even without the EGC.

Mike,
My point is that there is not likely to be a ground fault path on an knob and tube system and so there will be no 30mA ground fault trip. The AFCI will have to see the 5 amp series arc current before it can open the circuit. 5 amps is more then enough to make enough heat to start a fire. Glowing connections have occurred with loads of 100 watts or less. In a system/circuit with an EGC it is likely that the series fault will cause a ground fault long before AFCI arc detection circuit will see the problem.
As far as 30 mA traveling through the studs or other non-metallic paths, I don't see that very likely in a typical dwelling unit.


Don(resqcapt19)