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#96991 - 01/12/06 09:45 PM romex in conduit  
scameron81  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 75
Healdsburg, ca, USA
I got into a lively debate with one of the guys this morning over whether or not you can run romex in a conduit. He insisted that you could run it in conduit as a complete raceway system. I said that while you may use it to sleeve the romex for physical protection, it can't be run as a complete raceway system.
I remember reading somewhere that its not allowed because the ground wire has to be insulated in a raceway, but I couldn't find it in the code book. I was hoping that someone could point me in the right direction.
thanks


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#96992 - 01/12/06 09:54 PM Re: romex in conduit  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
scameron81, it is allowed and was cleared up in the 05 cycle.

Quote
358.22 Number of Conductors
The number of conductors shall not exceed that permitted by the percentage fill specified in Table 1, Chapter 9.
Cables shall be permitted to be installed where such use is not prohibited by the respective cable articles. The number of cables shall not exceed the allowable percentage fill specified in Table 1, Chapter 9.


All the xxx.22 conduit sections are the same.

Roger

[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 01-12-2006).]


#96993 - 01/13/06 04:49 PM Re: romex in conduit  
dana1028  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 163
San Carlos, CA
just have to play the devils advocate here...

358.22 - 'cables shall be permitted to be installed where such use is permitted bythe respective cable articles.'

Art. 334
334.15(B) Protection from Physical Damage -
NM is permitted in a raceway system to protect it from physical damage...

However... where protection from physical damage is not the issue - how do you comply with 334.30? ....Securing & Supporting every 4-1/2 ft. and within 12" of every cabinet, box....

312.5(C) - Cabinet... - 'where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet....'

How are these requirements achieved when using a raceway system?

again, just play the advocate and using previous arguments against NM in conduit.

This seems to be one of those arguments that have advocates on both sides of the issue.

Personally, as an electrician I do not install NM in conduit systems; as an inspector I don't get overly excited about someone doing so...I do give the electricians a heads-up that many jurisdictions in the area do not permit NM in conduit.


#96994 - 01/13/06 08:07 PM Re: romex in conduit  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Maybe I'm being a bit unfair, but when I fee romex run inside pipe, for no apparent reason, my first thought is "well, let's see what else this homeowner did wrong."

Even if the case is made that this is something allowed by the code, running romex in pipe is a lot of extra work, and a lot of expense, for very little gain.

So, if you want everyone to think "amateur" when they see your work, go ahead. Just quit beating this dead horse, please!


#96995 - 01/14/06 12:42 PM Re: romex in conduit  
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
Dana, take a look at the 2005 version of that section. The last sentance reads "SEctions of cable proteceted from physical damage by a raceway shall not be required to be secured within the raceway".


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

#96996 - 01/15/06 03:33 PM Re: romex in conduit  
XtheEdgeX  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 116
Florida
That may be your opinion, but opinions shouldn't come into play if you want to offer a fair inspection. If the HO wants to bear the extra expense and work to go above the NEC's minimum requirements, why should it matter to you? It's not prohibited to run NM in conduit. As long as all of the requirements are met, conduit fill, derating, etc., who cares?


#96997 - 01/15/06 11:57 PM Re: romex in conduit  
winnie  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 649
boston, ma
I agree with reno's opinion on this. It is clearly allowed, but should raise the 'amateur' flag, along the lines of taping wirenuts. Nothing wrong with taping wirenuts...but it should make you wonder if the wirenuts were properly applied.

IMHO, it is all for the better for someone to go above and beyond the NEC minimum requirements, but there are recognized good and bad approaches to getting a job done. If NM is permitted in an application, but the customer wants 'better', I would use MC, THHN in EMT, or THHN in NMC as the situation requires.

-Jon


#96998 - 01/16/06 07:36 AM Re: romex in conduit  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote
It is clearly allowed, but should raise the 'amateur' flag, along the lines of taping wirenuts. Nothing wrong with taping wirenuts...but it should make you wonder if the wirenuts were properly applied.


I agree to a point but IMO one should consider the whole installation before passing judgment.

I run a lot of MC and still some NM, I often end up with both these cables in raceways.

A very typical situation is the following.

I have to run a circuit from a panel in an electrical room across a suspended ceiling then down a wall to utilization equipment.

Many of our customers only want to pay for cable for the concealed portions but want raceways in exposed areas.

I run a raceway out of the panel through the exposed electrical room until I get into the concealed suspended ceiling, if the other end at the utilization equipment is not going to be fished I run raceway there as well.

Now I pull a cable through the ceiling, use a change over fitting at the raceways and pull the cable through the raceways.

I can see no point in adding splice points at each end simply to avoid pulling the cable through the raceway.

It is code compliant, it is safe, it is economical and leaves less terminations which are generally the source of problems.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#96999 - 01/16/06 01:59 PM Re: romex in conduit  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
I accept NM cable in a raceway to a box especially for a surface mounted switch or receptacle in a basement.
However, AC or MC cable without a bushing or listed connector could create some problems with the jacket cutting the conductors, or extending into the box and contacting live parts.
I have seen Ac cable used with NM connectors and the metal jacket was hanging next to the bus bars in the panel. Not good.
Usually NM in a conduit run except as noted above indicates a non-electrician did the work.
Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#97000 - 01/16/06 02:12 PM Re: romex in conduit  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Alan

Quote
However, AC or MC cable without a bushing or listed connector could create some problems with the jacket cutting the conductors, or extending into the box and contacting live parts.


MC is never required to have a bushing.

AC is always required to have a bushing.

Regardless MC, NM, AC are all required to use a fitting designed and listed for the use.

Quote
300.15(F) Fitting. A fitting identified for the use shall be permitted in lieu of a box or conduit body where conductors are not spliced or terminated within the fitting. The fitting shall be accessible after installation.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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