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#93529 - 05/30/05 04:36 PM AFCI's again  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 826
NC
Sorry to bring this subject up again, but I searched the some of the archives, and didn't see a definite answer about the master bedroom lights having to be on the bedroom AFCI circuit. I may have missed it though. In my opinion it would be best, but is it required? I don't seem to see it "spelled out" in the code. It only says bedroom outlets.... Thanks Steve... Also how about the master bedroom closet light? I would think so. Steve

[This message has been edited by sparkync (edited 05-30-2005).]

[This message has been edited by sparkync (edited 05-30-2005).]


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#93530 - 05/30/05 05:14 PM Re: AFCI's again  
Gregtaylor  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 212
Boise, Idaho, USA
The consensus seems to be that a ceiling box is an outlet as defined in the code. So is a receptacle, smoke detector etc. because they are "a point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment"-NEC 2002 Art. 100-Outlets. Thus a box containing just a switch would not be an outlet because it is only for control, not utilization.


#93531 - 05/30/05 05:59 PM Re: AFCI's again  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 826
NC
Greg, I'm actually talking about the switch not necessarily being in the bedroom, but the switch in the bathroom controlling the lights. I know technically, by "wording" that the bathroom is not the bedroom, but looks to me like they would still be considered one. If an arch originates in the bathroom lighting next to the bedroom, would not the same hazard be present when the homeowner is asleep, being it is so close to the bedroom? I know according to the wording that it wouldn't have to be, but it don't make a lot of sense to me. Thanks again.. Steve..


#93532 - 05/30/05 06:35 PM Re: AFCI's again  
Gregtaylor  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 212
Boise, Idaho, USA
There's no reason you can't go beyond the minimum of the code if you wish. If the light that is being controlled is in the bedroom then that circuit must be AFCI protected. The decision is based on where the "outlet" is, not the switch that controls it. Frankly I think that the whole AFCI thing is a solution looking for a problem anyway.


#93533 - 05/30/05 07:17 PM Re: AFCI's again  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 826
NC
Greg, I agree.. Somethings just don't make right good sense..Steve


#93534 - 05/30/05 08:01 PM Re: AFCI's again  
Larry Fine  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 693
Richmond, VA
It also depends on which NEC version you're under. The '99 says bedroom receptacles only, while the '02 calls for all utilization points in the bedroom, even smokes, but does not appear to include closets.

From the 1999 NEC:

210-12. Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.

(a) Definition.
An arc-fault circuit interrupter is a device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.

(b) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter(s). This requirement shall become effective January 1, 2002.


From the 2002 NEC:

210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.

(A) Definition.
An arc-fault circuit interrupter is a device intended to provide protection from the effects of arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc fault is detected.

(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit.

[This message has been edited by Larry Fine (edited 05-30-2005).]


Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
fineelectricco.com

#93535 - 05/30/05 08:23 PM Re: AFCI's again  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Lest we open old arguments.....a switch is not an outlet- so a switch in the bedroom controlling a light in the bathroom need not be afci protected. A switch outside the bedroom that controlled the bedrom would require such protection.


#93536 - 06/05/05 01:17 AM Re: AFCI's again  
JoeMed  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 16
Chino Valley Az. 86323
why is a switch not an outlet?

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. (2002)


#93537 - 06/05/05 01:36 AM Re: AFCI's again  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Joe,
A switch is not an outlet, because the ultilization equipment is not installed at the switch.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

#93538 - 06/05/05 09:36 AM Re: AFCI's again  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
In my opinion we have to accept Don's interpretation of outlet. [Linked Image]

If we did say that a switch is an outlet than almost everything we install becomes an outlet.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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