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#89947 - 10/25/04 12:42 AM 4 Wire Dryer and Range Outlets a Good Idea?  
Norstarr  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 86
Question that bothers me. After 50 years of allowing the neutral feeding a dryer and range receptacle to serve as the ground also is now required to be independent. As we change the cords on existing units we separate the ground from the neutral and install the cord to be used with a 4 wire receptacle. Problem? I am betting that as these units get older and folks start to sell them the people that pick them up will live in older properties with 3 wire receptacles. Their answer to problem? Take the 3 wire cord from their appliance and install it in place of the 4 wire cord on the used appliance w/o knowing the situation they are creating. Within 10 years we have loads of dryers and ranges not grounded and the potential for lethal shock. Am I missing something or did the code panel miss something that should have been left in place, expecially with todays copper prices? I have already come across this situation where the girls father thought he was doing her a favor and left the unit ungrounded.Just a thought.

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#89948 - 10/25/04 07:59 AM Re: 4 Wire Dryer and Range Outlets a Good Idea?  
George Little  Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
I agree with your analogy and it's going to happen. But we have this going on daily when people move into a home with the old 2 wire system and they need to plug in an appliance and the cap has a two wire with ground. Simple solution- just use one of those 2 wire to three wire adaptors you can buy at any hardware store. No one ever pursues the connection of the equipment grounding conductor. Boils down to the saying " You can protect the fool but you can't protect the damn fool."

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 10-25-2004).]

George Little

#89949 - 10/25/04 12:34 PM Re: 4 Wire Dryer and Range Outlets a Good Idea?  
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
I never understood why a dryer had a 120v load in the first place. The motors are special items that only work in dryers anyway, to say this is all over light bulbs is ridiculous. Those bulbs are not usually standard "appliance bulbs" either.

Greg Fretwell

#89950 - 10/25/04 09:30 PM Re: 4 Wire Dryer and Range Outlets a Good Idea?  
John Steinke  Offline
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
Reno,Nv., USA
My pet peeve is that the 4-wire receptacles will not fit into a single gang mud ring- which makes a changeover problematic.
What I'd love to see is a combo "super size" box that would hold a duplex dryer receptacle- one 3-wire, one 4.

#89951 - 10/25/04 09:44 PM Re: 4 Wire Dryer and Range Outlets a Good Idea?  
NORCAL  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 872
A Cooper/Eagle will fit in a single gang box.

#89952 - 10/26/04 01:26 AM Re: 4 Wire Dryer and Range Outlets a Good Idea?  
Big Jim  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 394
Denver, CO USA
The American housewife would not put up with not having a light in her dryer and 240 bulbs are not a practical solution in a world where every other bulb is 120. Also, in the era before electronic controls, 120 volt timer motors were much more available and cheaper. Given that residential wiring is set up that way, 120 loads acually make sense.

#89953 - 10/26/04 02:10 AM Re: 4 Wire Dryer and Range Outlets a Good Idea?  
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,099
If you are whirlpool or maytag making 100,000 dryers a year the manufacturer will make you whatever timer you spec and the price wouldn't be any different. They used those little Synchron motors in computers all those years and they were 240. U/L could have made this stick 50 years ago and there would be also 240v appliance bulbs at the grocery store for stoves and dryers.
We simply lived with the exception too long and nobody was willing to do anything about it.

Greg Fretwell

#89954 - 10/26/04 07:04 AM Re: 4 Wire Dryer and Range Outlets a Good Idea?  
CharlieE  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 200
Sounds like going to metric doesn't it? [Linked Image]

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Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis, Utility Power Guy

Charlie Eldridge, Indianapolis Utility Power Guy

#89955 - 10/26/04 08:22 AM Re: 4 Wire Dryer and Range Outlets a Good Idea?  
Reel-Break  Offline
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 178
Hey John I actually did that. PLaced a double gang box in a apartment for a guy.That way he can wire to what ever style dryer comes in. I also always install dryer and range repts in a double gang box just for convience saves install time and much easier.

#89956 - 10/26/04 03:02 PM Re: 4 Wire Dryer and Range Outlets a Good Idea?  
tdhorne  Offline
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
Maryland, USA
The basic principle of safety engineering is that is should take two failures to cause a danger to humans. The three wire dryer and range circuits violate that principle. Any failure of the neutral of the three wire dryer and range circuits causes the 120 volt control and motor voltage to appear on the shell of the appliance. With a four wire circuit if the neutral goes open the appliance stops working. In order for the shell to become energized in that event the neutral has to fault to ground and the Equipment Grounding Conductor has to go open. The change to separate EGCs on these circuits is just sound practice. The minor increase in cost does not justify continuing the dangerous practice of the past.
Tom H

Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison

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