ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Potseal 11
Recent Posts
600 KW 120/208 3 Phase Y protection
by Yooperup. 07/24/17 12:20 PM
1913 American Electrician's Handbook
by gfretwell. 07/20/17 01:08 PM
Green House wiring
by ghost307. 07/20/17 09:10 AM
Permit Snafus...AHJs and Contractors Jump in
by HotLine1. 07/18/17 08:06 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
239,339 Are you busy
174,809 Re: Forum
167,185 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 50 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#84109 - 03/10/03 09:16 PM Supplementary Overcurrent ????  
wocolt  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 110
does anyone have a definition of a Supplementary overcurrent protection/device ??????

Thanks in advance..

WOC


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#84110 - 03/10/03 11:08 PM Re: Supplementary Overcurrent ????  
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 329
So San Francisco CA
240-10 would suggest an internal/integral fuse/breaker in an appliance would be one.


#84111 - 03/10/03 11:17 PM Re: Supplementary Overcurrent ????  
ga.sparky56  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 558
young harris georgia usa
I remember some metal halide light fixtures we replaced once that had fuses in the box with the ballast. Would that qualify?


#84112 - 03/10/03 11:50 PM Re: Supplementary Overcurrent ????  
wocolt  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 110
Thanks for the help. It came up in article 240.24(E), under the heading of 'Location on Premises'.. specifically, in bathrooms.

Not Located in Bathrooms. Overcurrent protection devices ,OTHER THAN SUPPLEMENTAL OVERCURRENT PROTECTION, shall not be located in the bathrooms of dwelling units...
So my question what exactly qualifies as a supplemental overcurrent protection/device.
tanks in advance


WOC


#84113 - 03/11/03 01:13 AM Re: Supplementary Overcurrent ????  
Bjarney  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
ga.sparky — It’s worth noting that supplementary overcurrent protection has application in light fixtures to prevent one ballast fault taking out an entire branch circuit and plunging a critical area into darkness.

300V fuse designed for {120-277V} highbay and fluorescent lighting: http://www.bussmann.com/library/bifs/2033.PDF

Submersible fuseholder for use in subsurface {even flooded} applications for service continuity in outdoor area lighting: http://www.bussmann.com/library/bifs/2127.PDF


#84114 - 03/11/03 01:41 AM Re: Supplementary Overcurrent ????  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
gasparky 56:

indeed i ran into alot of them with 277 volts with flourescent lamps especally with slimline units they have socd ( summentover curret device) and quite few of hids also have fuse on them espcally near full load on line and it also noted that on crictal lines it will have fuse there near ballast but i dont have the excat nec code numeber with me but genrally it is common practice and also outside parking lot lightfixure also have fuse too i just replace quite few of them not too long ago it came with 120/208 volts line 3 ph with 60 amp line with get this # 1 wire (copper !!)that the reason they put fuse on hevey loaded line ditto with city street light i see simuaur set up using same arrangement with parking lot lights too


merci marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)


#84115 - 03/11/03 06:45 PM Re: Supplementary Overcurrent ????  
Tony Moscioni  Offline
Moderator
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 144
CANADA
Supplemental Protectors are not intended to provide branch circuit protection and are limited to applications where branch circuit protection is already provided or is not required.

Supplemental Protectors, according to their scope of evaluation, are not evaluated for performance to provide branch circuit protection.

This consideration alters the content in the performance requirements and in general
would allow for more flexibility in the requirements than what would be allowed for a device being evaluated for branch circuit protection.


Look for the proper markings on Din-Rail Circuit Breakers to properly identify what is a Circuit Breaker and what is a supplementary protector.

Here are the CSA & UL Standards:

Branch Circuit Protection:
Products evaluated according to the UL 489 Standard for molded case circuit
breakers are listed for branch circuit protection. Branch circuit protection must be
provided for the conductors supplying utilization equipment in accordance with the NEC.

On OEM products, circuits exiting the control panel must be considered as branch circuits, as well as circuits supplying receptacles in the control panel.


The CSA (Canadian Standards Association) C22.2 No. 5.1 standard closely corresponds to UL 489. Products evaluated according to this CSA standard are intended to protect branch circuits in accordance with the Canadian Electrical Code
(CEC).

Branch Circuit Protection for DC:

UL 489A corresponds to requirements "covering single-pole or multi-pole DC circuit-breakers intended for use as branch circuit overcurrent and short-circuit protection in communications equipment."

Supplementary Protection within the Equipment:
Products evaluated according to UL 1077 Standard for supplementary protectors are recognized components which carry conditions of acceptability and therefore have limited application without further investigation by the certification organization listing the final product.

Supplementary protectors are used to protect specific loads more closely rated to the utilization equipment. OEM products may use
these devices for protecting sensitive electronic equipment or other equipment that requires unique or specific overcurrent protection.

A UL 1077 Recognized supplementary protector is not a substitute for a branch circuit overcurrent protective device listed to UL 489.

UL 1077 Recognized products must be used in conjunction with branch circuit protection when
wiring connected to the supplementary protector exits the equipment to external devices such as receptacles or motors.

The CSA C22.2 No. 235 Standard is equivalent to the UL 1077 Standard.

Tony Moscioni
Electrical Inspector
Electrical Safety Authority


#84116 - 03/11/03 09:23 PM Re: Supplementary Overcurrent ????  
The Watt Doctor  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 435
Mont Belvieu, TX
wocolt,
240.24(E) Is what allows you to put GFI receptacles in the bathroom. Just think. If it wasn't for 240.24(E), we would have to install GFCI breakers because all overcurrent devices would have to be located in the panel. Anyway, just a thought.

Regards,
Doc


The Watt Doctor
Altura Cogen
Channelview, TX

#84117 - 03/11/03 09:32 PM Re: Supplementary Overcurrent ????  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
I do not believe a GFCI receptacle is an OCPD.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#84118 - 03/11/03 09:44 PM Re: Supplementary Overcurrent ????  
WebSparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 138
Cleveland, Ohio
Quote
240.24(E) Is what allows you to put GFI receptacles


GFCI's are not over current devices!

Quote
Supplementary protectors are used to protect specific loads more closely rated to the utilization equipment. OEM products may use
these devices for protecting sensitive electronic equipment or other equipment that requires unique or specific overcurrent protection.


Exactly! This basicly says "no breaker or fuse panels in bathrooms.

Dave


Dave

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
noderaser
noderaser
Portland, Oregon, United States
Posts: 404
Joined: March 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8203 MB (Peak: 0.9938 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-07-26 04:49:40 UTC