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#83822 - 02/22/03 05:16 PM updating scary old wires in old house  
barryb-pdx  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2
portland, oregon usa
I removed a light fixture for painting and the cloth insulation on the old ungrounded BX was crumbling. I'd like to run new Romex from box to fixture and from fixture to wall switch, but how do I address the code issues like protecting and securing the cable if I'm just dropping it down inside a wall?
And do I just leave the old BX inside the walls since it's stapled to the studs?


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#83823 - 02/22/03 06:12 PM Re: updating scary old wires in old house  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,308
you would need to 'fish' bettween given points, the difficulty of which is dependent on the type of construction.

you would also need to take the old BX completely out of the circuit to safely abandon it.

myself, i tie all conductors together so as to make energizing the abandonded
conductor(s) improbable.

others may forward different methodology

yrs
~S


#83824 - 02/22/03 07:11 PM Re: updating scary old wires in old house  
Crowbar  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 33
Pittsburgh, PA,USA
I had very good success rewiring my brother's house a few years back by tying the romex to the old BX and pulling it through. Evidently they didn't staple the BX very well when they built the place, but it made fishing the romex MUCH easier.

Rich


#83825 - 02/23/03 01:38 AM Re: updating scary old wires in old house  
barryb-pdx  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2
portland, oregon usa
the fishing is trivial; it's a straight shot down the wall to the switch from the attic.
I'm just wondering how I'm supposed to secure (staple) the Romex inside the wall, rather than letting is "float" in there. (It wouldn't really float if I didn't leave any slack.)
Code requires this, yes? But I can't imagine that everyone puts extra holes in their walls to staple new wires.
Unfortunately my old ungrounded BX is stapled pretty securely, so I can't get it out. I just clipped it above the switch box and where it drops down from the attic.


#83826 - 02/23/03 06:29 AM Re: updating scary old wires in old house  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
NEC 2002 334.30(B)(1) NM (Romex) shall be permitted to be unsupported where the cable is fished between access points, where concealed in finished buildings or finished panels for prefabricated buildings and supporting is impracticable.

Bob

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 02-23-2003).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#83827 - 02/23/03 07:58 AM Re: updating scary old wires in old house  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
I agree! I also wonder why the code does not include the correct identification of the cable being discussed here! the code should a -B everywhere that the NM, NMC, and NMS cable is mentioned in the code, and there are hundreds.

Another issue I have with the code panels!

They don't want to accept my proposals because it would create too much work for everyone who writes catalogs and other documents.

PS: If you have saved any of the old BX and can take some close up pictures, send them to me and I will post them here for us to see.


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#83828 - 02/24/03 12:21 PM Re: updating scary old wires in old house  
SvenNYC  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
New York City
>>NEC 2002 334.30(B)(1) NM (Romex) shall be permitted to be unsupported where the cable is fished between access points,<<

Can the same thing be done if you're replacing old BX with new armored cable? Or does armored cable ALWAYS have to be supported regardless if it's being fished behind finished walls?


#83829 - 02/24/03 04:02 PM Re: updating scary old wires in old house  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,826
Brick, NJ USA
Sven:
Yes, you can "fish" bx/mc into walls or the like, and not have to staple it as you would on an "open" wall.
John


John

#83830 - 02/24/03 05:48 PM Re: updating scary old wires in old house  
cubby964  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 67
USA
If I may ask:
Is it the intent of the CODE to allow fished wires (NM-B, MC, etc) unsupported because they are protected from damage by the finished walls, whereas, they are unprotected during construction in new walls?



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