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#81895 - 09/28/02 12:23 PM Code sections  
harold endean  Offline
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
I have a few questions about code sections. #1) If you have a light fixture on s grid ceiling and it is cord connected, is the receptacle allowed to be above the ceiling tile? Is code sec. 400-8 (2) the only section that applies here? Any other setion.

#2) You have a BX wire running into a metal light fixture box. This light is effectivly grounded right? Section 250-136(a)

#3)We all know that you shouldn't leave wires hanging out without boxing them off. (Does it matter if they are dead?)Would section 300-15 cover this issue?
Am I missing another code section for any of the above questions?

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#81896 - 09/28/02 03:56 PM Re: Code sections  
Electra  Offline
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 38
Portland, Oregon, USA
1) That is the only code section that applies that I am aware of, therefore it is not allowed to run a flexible cord through a ceiling tile.

2) 1999 - Art. 250-118 describes what can be used as an equipment grounding conductor. I'm not old enough to have ever installed BX, but I'm thinking that it may fall under one of the categories listed as appropriate for an equipment grounding conductor,

3) I believe you have the correct section for this one also. As a rule, if the wires are there, even if they are dead, they have the potential of becoming hot at some point in the future. Therefore, I say that a box would be required.

#81897 - 09/28/02 03:58 PM Re: Code sections  
Tom  Offline
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA

This looks like a fun question.

1. This fixture could only be installed if there is no ceiling tile.. Don't leave out 400.8(5) & visit 410.30(C)(1)(2)

2 See 410.21 &250.118(9)

3. This would be a stretch. If the cables are not connectd, then they obviously do not supply an outlet or a switch. However, one definition of "termination" means end. Since the wires are an end of a run then you could possibly require a box. i wouldn't bet my paycheck on it though.


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

#81898 - 09/28/02 04:42 PM Re: Code sections  
Roger  Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
Harold, why do I get the feeling this is a loaded question?

#1 400.8(1) could be argued, and I agree with Tom on 400.8(5)

#2 BX or AC, if we are using the generic term BX and actually refering to AC, then the answer is YES. Now if these fixtures are above 8" it doesn't matter, 250.110(1),
and as far as 517.13(b)exc2 it doesn't seem to be a concern here. You could also look at 320.108

#3 I think 110.12 could apply, (maybe a stretch here too) but all 800 articles with the exception of 810 mentions tagging abandoned cables for future use.


#81899 - 09/28/02 05:34 PM Re: Code sections  
Roger  Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
Electra, I don't know if anyone else has said it, but welcome to the forum.


#81900 - 09/28/02 06:31 PM Re: Code sections  
harold endean  Offline
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
OK, sometimes I do put out some "loaded" question out there to have fun. This time, I have 3 different people asking me 3 different questions. I am answering them as fairly and as honestly as I can. I know that I have some good answers for them, but I was just double checking to make sure that I didn't miss anything. As some of you know I am an electrical contractor and a working inspector. I try to be fair with every job that I inspect and I don't over use my authority. I believe that if it meets the intent of the code and it is safe then I will pass the job. In 1 case that I mention there might be a law suit envolved and I want to give the contractor every benefit of doubt because I feel that he met the intent of the code. The one question did not have to do with electric discharge lights but with a "disco" ball type of a light. It was suppose to hang from a ceiling and I told the contractor that if it was to plug in, it had to meet sec 400-8 and the cord could'y pass for fixed wiring. Another contractor left the ground wire loose on a light fixture, however sec. 250-136 and sec 410-21 will make his connection approved. The last code issue was that everyone wants to box off old wires. We all agree that it is safer and if I had to quote this one for those home inspectors then I would use sec 300-15 in order to get those boxes closed.

P.S. Electra, welcome to this board, there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here who like to discuss the NEC. We are people who take pride in our work and want to see every electrical job installed safely as per the code. We can all learn a lot here.

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