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#49735 - 03/14/05 08:15 PM 210.25?/ Advise  
Dnkldorf  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,064
nowhere usa
Got a call concerning a 1 bedroom apartment today.

Background info that I know.

It was a house, converted to apartments.

When, I have no idea yet.

Customer tells me she is paying over $200/ month for electric, one bedroom place, no washer dryer, electric heat that is off most of time.
3 meters outside, one for each Apartment.
None for the "house load".

Claims she has the smallest of the the three, pays the most, she "knows" her meter is supplying circuits to other apartments, that she is paying for.

Question, other than 210.25, is there any other reference than I can provide to her to to give her a "leg to stand on" against her landlord.

I am headed up there on the 22nd of this month to pull the meter and see what gets shut off and where. She is going on vacation from the 24-29 of this month. I suggest pull the meter for this time, and see who complains. She will clean out the fridge.

Anyone been down this road, and any advise you can provide as far as the legality end goes?

Maybe a differernt avenue to provide her?



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#49736 - 03/14/05 08:59 PM Re: 210.25?/ Advise  
mustangelectric  Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
Bentonville, AR
Be careful removing power from occupied dwellings without permission. This is illegal in most states. Second there may be an elderly person relying on a medical device for survival if they die you could be in big trouble.



Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

#49737 - 03/14/05 09:16 PM Re: 210.25?/ Advise  
wa2ise  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 783
Oradell NJ USA
Maybe it's something as dumb as the power company not having the right meter associated to the right apartment. Tenant A paying tenant B's power consumption, and B for A. A sees bigger bills, tries to conserve. Then B sees small bills, and thinks his usage is low and maybe it goes up as he thinks his loads are not burning as much power as they really are. And thus not worry about conserving. A's bills are now getting outragious enough to prompt her to have it checked out. ?

#49738 - 03/14/05 09:46 PM Re: 210.25?/ Advise  
LK  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
These jobs are better then the movies, the last one we went to, there were 3 patrol cars, building inspector, a social worker, and the medics, the medics were treating the landloard, the police were hand cuffing one of the tenants, and the social worker was crying, the building inspector got in his car and left, we followed the building inspector.

#49739 - 03/15/05 07:34 AM Re: 210.25?/ Advise  
Steve Miller  Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 325
Loudoun Cty, VA
Last one of these I went to (it's been a few years); the apt dweller had the house eqpt on their meter. We pulled the meter after dark then called the landlord to come see. Put it back after he arrived and witnessed the situation. Probably wasn't the smartest thing we could have done considering the house eqpt was "under load" when we pulled it.

#49740 - 03/15/05 01:58 PM Re: 210.25?/ Advise  
rad74ss  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 156
Pryor, OK USA
Super low tech.

Have you tried turning off all electric appliances, lights, etc. and unplugging the ones with no on/off switches and observing the meter with no load?

If the meter is still going at a good clip then something is amiss. If the neighbors agree they may at that point start turning off their loads while observing the meter. After all their loads are off bring on your customers loads and observe any differences between the respective meters.

I don't know what kind of meter it is so I don't know how difficult it would be to observe disk rotation, flipping numbers etc., but for $200 a month that thing must fly.

#49741 - 03/15/05 05:29 PM Re: 210.25?/ Advise  
Dnkldorf  Offline
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,064
nowhere usa
Thanks to all, good points.

I could shut the main breaker off to the apartment and see one of the meters stop, if the main panel for that apartment is accessable.

What I was looking for is, lets say we shut everything in her apartment down, and the meter still runs, where do you go from there?

Call in an electrical inspector to verify this?

Call the township, to have the landlord comply with 210.25?

Basicaly, what if the landlord says "so what".

Where do you go from there, to help her out?

From what she tells me, the landlord happens to be a lawyer, who doesn't do anything he is suppose to, in fact, he sends her the electric bills, not the power company, and sometimes he writes on them "estimated bill".

Anyone got any advise on this one?

#49742 - 03/15/05 05:51 PM Re: 210.25?/ Advise  
mustangelectric  Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
Bentonville, AR
if you shut the main to the main panel and the meter spins someone has tapped ahead of the ocpd to feed another load..

in this case you would need to split this out..



[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 03-15-2005).]

Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

#49743 - 03/15/05 06:35 PM Re: 210.25?/ Advise  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878

If she has a legitimate case and the Landlord won't make it right maybe your PA Office of Consumer Advocate would be able to help or advise.


#49744 - 03/16/05 01:03 AM Re: 210.25?/ Advise  
FWW56  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 17
Pgh, Pa
Around here SW Pa, at least one of the local power cos. DQE, will not set up an account for a tenant until it can be shown that their account will only be charged for their usage. I've been involved in several situations and had to do some creative things to satisfy the code. In one case I had to put in redundant lighting for the basement stairs as well as the laundry area with two sets of lights with each set exclusively controlled by the respective tenant.

It sounds as if an end run is being made by the landlord and he is acting as his own power supplier, buying off of the local utility and selling it to the tenants (contact the PUC maybe). If the tenant does have an account with the power co. they would probably come out and verify that all's well, or not.

Maybe a call to the local building dept is in order. With shortcuts like this, I would bet that there are other areas that are on the wrong side of the fine line.

Often times these old houses are cut up into apartments without the proper permits pulled, not properly inspected and no occupancy permit issued either. The building dept should be able to help in this regard as well.


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