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#211504 - 10/21/13 01:51 AM CALC OF SERVICE SERVING RECESSED LUMINAIRES  
patrick1  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21
bensenville
It has my contention as an inspector, that the maximum wattage of the recessed luminaries be added to the wattage of calculating service sizes. I ordinarily ask contractors to consider the circuits that need to be added to cover amps added to accommodate this is above the minimum 3VA per square foot. 110.3 210.11 are my ordinary references with this grey area. I am having a discussion with my supervisor about this and having some resistance. I have had a bit of mental block after concussion and literally reading NEC 02,and 08 all over.

I need a bit of help with more code references besides what I referenced above or tell me I am wrong. Thanks all!


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#211506 - 10/21/13 08:01 AM Re: CALC OF SERVICE SERVING RECESSED LUMINAIRES [Re: patrick1]  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
I always understood that if you calculate the lighting load at 3VA per square foot for lighting that covered all lighting load. Of coarse this is a minimum standard.

Now with all the energy standards, lighting loads with be less. For example, our energy code requires a minimum of 50% of new lighting to be energy efficient such as CFL or LED.


#211507 - 10/21/13 09:03 AM Re: CALC OF SERVICE SERVING RECESSED LUMINAIRES [Re: patrick1]  
wire_twister  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 265
Georgia USA
I am with shortcircuit, I understood the 3va per sqft was for lighting and general purpose receptacle loads. Also with the LEDs for can lights getting cheaper I see more and more of those going in, this takes a maximum 65 watt fixture and makes it a 3 or 5 watt fixture. So the way I see it adding the extra 3 VA would just be insurance that the service has the capacity to carry any future loads that might be added, and I see nothing wrong with that.


Jimmy

Life is tough, Life is tougher when you are stupid

#211508 - 10/21/13 10:16 AM Re: CALC OF SERVICE SERVING RECESSED LUMINAIRES [Re: patrick1]  
patrick1  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21
bensenville
I do agree with the energy codes being able to lower wattage at the time of construction, however, when construction is done, if a fixture is not fitted with a non reversing adaptor that would only allow for a particular bulb; there is no guarantee that the bulbs won't end up being the maximum allowed for the recessed luminaire. Also, I see where CFL bulbs might be non-linear as well as any lighting location being continuous. This is not usually an issue when only 4 or 5 recessed luminaries are installed but when 12-100 recessed luminaries get installed and are not accounted for.
Thank you again, in advance for all input.


#211511 - 10/21/13 12:01 PM Re: CALC OF SERVICE SERVING RECESSED LUMINAIRES [Re: patrick1]  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
All do respect...but I don't think you should require anything outside of what the code requires.

With the lighting, I would expect that people will want to save on their electric bill and replace with energy efficient bulbs.

With the 3VA per sqft we also can't prevent the end user from plugging in high loads to the receptacle outlets either. The code isn't a design manual, but a minimum safety standard.



#211512 - 10/21/13 01:14 PM Re: CALC OF SERVICE SERVING RECESSED LUMINAIRES [Re: patrick1]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,809
Brick, NJ USA
Patrick1:

An old sage once told me.....'you are not a fortune teller, and you cannot see the future, and the inspection is for what is here now'.

3va per sq ft takes care of it.

BTW, have you ever monitored a 200 amp resi service for the actual load?



John

#211513 - 10/21/13 03:50 PM Re: CALC OF SERVICE SERVING RECESSED LUMINAIRES [Re: patrick1]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
Patrick, you should be looking at article 220 for your load calcs and look at the examples in annex D in the back to see how all of that works.

The 3va from table 220.12 is all of the general lighting load for the occupancies it applies to but the footnotes at the bottom have additional adjustments for occupancies like offices that will end up being 4.5va when you apply them 220.14(k).
220.14(J) points out the required outlets in a dwelling that do not trigger any additional load allowance (bathrooms, garages, basements and the required lighting outlets). You still add in the laundry and small appliance circuits in the kitchen at 1500va per circuit 220.52(A)(4500va total).


Greg Fretwell

#211519 - 10/22/13 11:44 PM Re: CALC OF SERVICE SERVING RECESSED LUMINAIRES [Re: patrick1]  
patrick1  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 21
bensenville
Thanks everyone for the valuable input. I do appreciate it.

Pat


#211525 - 10/24/13 10:40 AM Re: CALC OF SERVICE SERVING RECESSED LUMINAIRES [Re: patrick1]  
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 900
Chicago Illinois USA
Here in Chicago the logic behind allowances for individual fixtures (such as downlights) is that no matter what wattage lamps are installed initially someone will decide that it's too dark and go to the DIY store, buy a bigger lamp, stand on a chair and stick it in the fixture.

As such, the requirement here is to allow for the maximum that CAN be installed instead of what is called for on the plans.

However, the incoming is sized per Article 220 regardless of how it's broken down once it comes into the building.


Ghost307

#211534 - 10/25/13 01:47 AM Re: CALC OF SERVICE SERVING RECESSED LUMINAIRES [Re: patrick1]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
Quote
As such, the requirement here is to allow for the maximum that CAN be installed instead of what is called for on the plans.


How many VA do you rate a can for? 250? 150? 75? plus 25%?


Greg Fretwell

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