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#118068 - 08/04/04 09:22 PM Unfused Conductors in Attic  
Admin  Offline

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,458

Found this service being done by city workers. Riser went through the roof into the attic, LB'ed into sch 40, proceeded halfway across the building (in attic) before LB'ing again outside to the meterbase and service equipment. A sch 40 then comes out of the panel to a trough for branch circuits. This has a 150A main and #2 THHN service conductors. Also has a #4 solid between meterbase and panel.

- necbuff
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#118069 - 08/04/04 10:28 PM Re: Unfused Conductors in Attic  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
This was discussed via another issue recently.

Let the games begin!

230.70 If this gave you a footage as a maximum, you would have something to fall bak on, and be able to "No, won't do it!"

Commentary from the handbook:
No maximum distance is specified from the point of entrance of service conductors to a readily accessible location for the installation of a service disconnecting means. The authority enforcing this Code has the responsibility for, and is charged with, making the decision as to how far inside the building the service-entrance conductors are allowed to travel to the main disconnecting means. The length of service-entrance conductors should be kept to a minimum inside buildings, because power utilities provide limited overcurrent protection and, in the event of a fault, the service conductors could ignite nearby combustible materials.
Some local jurisdictions have ordinances that allow service-entrance conductors to run within the building up to a specified length to terminate at the disconnecting means. The authority having jurisdiction may permit service conductors to bypass fuel storage tanks or gas meters and the like, permitting the service disconnecting means to be located in a readily accessible location. However, if the authority judges the distance as being excessive, the disconnecting means may be required to be located on the outside of the building or near the building at a readily accessible location that is not necessarily nearest the point of entrance of the conductors.

Also see:

As for the wire size.... What's with that?

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#118070 - 08/04/04 11:53 PM Re: Unfused Conductors in Attic  
necbuff  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 41
Lebanon Tn USA
The code states nearest point of entrance. The handbook is a 3rd party opinion and a helpful guide. But some don't respect the wealth of knowledge inside although not law (unless your juristiction adopted into law along with the code. Most AHJ have ammendments for specfic distantances. State of TN is 2'Max. Metro Nashville is 5'Max and is law by authority of the city council and 100% enforcable. In extreame cases for those who will not attempt to comply, They may be cited to the board for a licese hearing or stop work order the site and shut it down.

Kenny Wilee

#118071 - 08/05/04 12:01 AM Re: Unfused Conductors in Attic  
Bjarney  Offline
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
This raises a very good point. As for "done by city workers," it sounds like an installation by unqualified individuals that may very well skirt inspection. That is [or should be] criminal.

Some operations are such that electrical work does not undergo routine inspection. In that case, the electrician is ethically bound to use extra effort and education on their own initiative to police their own work, and make the finished job thoroughly “antiseptic” and well beyond minimums from a compliance standpoint.

#118072 - 08/06/04 02:03 AM Re: Unfused Conductors in Attic  
Big Jim  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 394
Denver, CO USA
I suspect there is a lot of abuse by governmental agencies. I spent a couple of years working for a company/municipality. The town limits enclosed a shopping center, 5 houses, and an amusment park. One family owned all the land and leased to the shopping center. As for the rest, I was paid by the company but did anything the "town" needed. The state inspectors would wander in occasionally and tell us we shouldn't be doing what we were. We'd say OK and go somewhere else until they left then go finish the original job. We were open to the public so they could look around but since the town did not invite them in, they were pretty powerless. I learned a lot there. we owned the substation and all the distribution.

#118073 - 08/06/04 07:52 PM Re: Unfused Conductors in Attic  
dansan  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5
Murfreesboro TN USA
I don't think this meets anyone's definition of "nearest point of entrance". Looks to me like we also need to bond the isolated piece of metallic conduit.

#118074 - 08/13/04 06:20 AM Re: Unfused Conductors in Attic  
PCBelarge  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
In this case I would not permit this installation, regardless of what the handbook says.
During a fire or future construction, who knows where those unprotected service conductors may be.
My opinion, find another route.


Pierre Belarge

#118075 - 08/13/04 01:55 PM Re: Unfused Conductors in Attic  
kduke  Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 18
Keokuk, IA
The POCO I work for wouldn't allow this. The LB's ahead of the meter could be tapped into for free power. Will the LB's be accessible after the finish work? What about bonding the metalalic mast and the meter can?


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