ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
VFD MotorFeeders
by gfretwell. 10/19/17 01:02 AM
Generator Cable Sizing
by brsele. 10/18/17 07:39 PM
What do you do?
by gfretwell. 10/17/17 01:08 AM
Good ol' copper pipe in the fuse holder trick
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:16 PM
Another generator question
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:02 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
241,443 Are you busy
177,419 Re: Forum
169,009 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 6 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#105910 - 09/19/05 06:09 PM Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle

[Linked Image]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#105911 - 09/20/05 02:21 AM Re: Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle  
Hemingray  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 199
Lehigh Acres, FL
whoa hell. is there heavy load downline from that recep? Is that a push-n-pray outlet?


Cliff

#105912 - 09/20/05 06:25 AM Re: Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle  
IanR  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 328
Palm Bay FL USA
WOW! [Linked Image]


#105913 - 09/20/05 09:52 AM Re: Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle  
Dave T  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 155
Waukesha, WI, USA
It appears as thlugh the screws aren't listed for the number of wires that whom ever tried to use them to terminate them with.
Looks as if there are at least 2 wires under weah of 2 screws to me. That, when combined with the a down stream load magically turns the outlet into a heater.


#105914 - 09/20/05 12:25 PM Re: Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Also has to do with the material of the conductor, being aluminum and not connected to a CO/ALR type of device.


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#105915 - 09/20/05 01:27 PM Re: Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle  
mamills  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
Wharton, Texas, USA
It's O.K. The side of the box is missing, so there's plenty of ventilation [Linked Image].

Now for the serious side, I had a fire call a couple of years ago in a mobile home - HO reported a strange "hot" smell. On arrival, the wall receptacle in the living room was glowing red, easily visible in the room. Same type of receptacle you picture here - relatively cheap product, 15 amp max. capacity. The one we dealt with was wired with 12/2/G copper romex, with a large window air conditioner farther down the line.
After shutting down the circuit and cutting the wall finish away from the receptacle, we found a plastic box, badly distorted from the heat, just about ready to ignite. The wiring connections to the receptacle were pretty loose, possibly from the severe heating/cooling effect.

Mike (mamills)


#105916 - 09/28/05 01:38 AM Re: Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle  
electronspark  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 8
unless i am missunderstanding your comment about the 15 amp recep wired to a 12/2 wg circuit mamills, that is allowed as long as there is more than one actual 15 amp rated receptacles on that circuit. it's when there is a single receptacle on a circuit and not a duplex receptacle that the outlet must me rated the same as the OC device.


#105917 - 09/28/05 09:37 AM Re: Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle  
mamills  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
Wharton, Texas, USA
Hi electronspark:
Point well taken. I guess what I was getting at is, the receptacle, supplied by a 20 amp Square D breaker, failed as a result of current (and perhaps not necessarily excessive current at that) passing through the receptacle on its way to the air conditioner, as well as any other items downwind (if there were any). In my instance, the wires had appeared to be properly wrapped initially around the screws, and not connected via the "push 'n pray" method. Someone who is well versed in "electrical forensics" might have had a different view. A situation such as this makes a good case for solidly splicing wires together in the box, and bringing a pigtail out to the receptacle [Linked Image].

We have all seen 15 amp-rated receptacles, in a wide range of quality, offered for sale. Some are of such questionable quality that their sale should be illegal. Others are of much higher quality and can be discerned by their look and feel (as well as price).

When you really get to the bottom line, the HO probably would have been much better off with a dedicated 20 amp circuit with a 20 amp receptacle, as you mentioned.

Thank you for your comments [Linked Image].

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 09-28-2005).]


#105918 - 09/28/05 01:37 PM Re: Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
This is not an uncommon problem with poor connections and it occurs with copper as well as with aluminum. This is the type of problem that an AFCI cannot detect until it progresses into a line to neutral fault, a line to ground fault, or a neutral to ground fault.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

#105919 - 12/01/05 10:09 PM Re: Red Hot Glowing Terminations at a Receptacle  
SteveFehr  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
Chesapeake, VA
Could someone please remind me why NEC allows 15 Amp receptacles to be installed on a 20 Amp circuit? It just seems so... I dunno, un-NFPA?


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
CDS
CDS
Nicholson Ga
Posts: 34
Joined: June 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.017s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8177 MB (Peak: 0.9932 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-10-22 08:25:48 UTC