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Posted By: Admin Sloppy Work - 07/23/07 02:54 PM
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Slop in a $600,000.00 house, in Delaware County, PA.

- HCE727

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Posted By: Theelectrikid Re: Sloppy Work - 07/23/07 03:09 PM
I don't know which is worse, the electrical or the cable.

Is this basement going to be finished? Or did they just put the 2X4s in since they ran out of concrete anchors and bolts?
Nevermind: Just noticed the top plate.

One more question, is this a Toll Brothers House?

Ian A.
Posted By: mikesh Re: Sloppy Work - 07/23/07 04:33 PM
Branch wiring through the main breaker section is a fail in the great white north electrical code.
Posted By: EV607797 Re: Sloppy Work - 07/23/07 05:46 PM
$600K house with only a 200A service? That must be a pretty expensive neighborhood. Has this passed a final inspection yet? I sure don't see anything to secure the cables within 12" of the panel. Neat workmanship is getting to the point where it's non-existent in these parts.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Sloppy Work - 07/23/07 08:23 PM
Several of those connectors have more then two cables in them. I am not aware of any such connectors being listed for use with more than two cables. Look like a violation to me.

Sure, the cable look sloppy as they exit the insulation. Yet, I like the neat arrangement of the wires in the panel, and the tags identifying each wire.

One item that concerns me - and there is no way to tell from the picture if such is the case here - is that such homes often have a spa / hot tub / jacuzzi. As I understand these things, Romex (the wiring method used here exclusively) is not allowed for such a circuit, as the ground wire must be both full size, and insulated.
Posted By: copper Re: Sloppy Work - 07/23/07 08:52 PM
Off hand 110.12 comes to mind,I am not sure if there is a berating factor for those cables bundled. for $600k I would expect better.
Posted By: CaOperator Re: Sloppy Work - 07/23/07 11:32 PM
The outlet below and to the left of the panel. Am I seeing a single hot wire going through the offset nipple, and two romex coming in from the top? Is the GFI (it appears) wired in series with others, and not fed from this panel? And what is that hot doing without neutral or ground?
Posted By: Hemingray Re: Sloppy Work - 07/24/07 05:55 AM
What's with the aluminum wire coming out of the wire clamp? GEC?
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Sloppy Work - 07/24/07 08:31 AM
Let's see... 3 bundled cables... would make rated ampacity x 0.7 in my corner of the world. Not exactly knowing US ampacity tables I'd guess if that's #14 it would make for a lot of 10A and smaller breakers...
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Sloppy Work - 07/24/07 02:00 PM
Good catch, Hemingray. While aluminum is technically allowed as a GEC, it can't get within 18" of the ground. Since it's supposed to run without splicing, how it attaches to the ground rod / ufer is anyone's guess.

You need to derate for bundling only if the 'bundle' is over two feet long. I don't think the bundles are long enough for that to be an issue.

As for the receptacle ... I think I see a neutral wire there ... it's just that most of it is out of view, behind the lip of the box.
Posted By: EV607797 Re: Sloppy Work - 07/24/07 03:23 PM
My guess is that's the bond going to the cold water pipe using #2 solid aluminum. If you look closeley, the #6 copper is taped to the service entrance cable coming in from the ground rods.
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Sloppy Work - 07/24/07 11:15 PM
EV, I stand corrected ... and I bet you're right.

And ... thx to Jim M ... I stand corrected about hot tub grounding. I may have confused 'practice' with 'code.' OOPS!

Posted By: gibbonsseabee80 Re: Sloppy Work - 07/25/07 01:43 AM
Wow! at the rate the electricians in that company are using the electrical tape, that shop must be losing money. Someone had a field day with the electrical tape. "Hey I have a problem over here". "Don't worry my role of black tape will fix it."
Posted By: Theelectrikid Re: Sloppy Work - 07/25/07 01:46 AM
I wonder which circuit they spliced into for that transformer...
Posted By: Texas_Ranger Re: Sloppy Work - 07/25/07 08:12 AM
The tape is no surprise to me - 2 years ago I had a summer job with a somewhat sub standard EC and the first thing workers would do in the morning was grab 2 or 3 new rolls of tape, right after the coffee and chat.

(Work day in that company looked like this: 6.45: arrive, have a chat and coffee. 7.15: start to THINK about getting in the car. 7.30: get moving. 8.00: earliest time to arrive at the site. Look around once and have breakfast until 10.00. 10.00 - 11.00: do some work. 11.00: go for a second brakfast, seamlessly merging into a liquid lunch lasting until roughly 2 or 3pm. Then go home. (ok, that was one of the worst days, but even on the good ones they didn't get much done. Example: take down 9 pendant lights, i.e. get on the ladder, oben 3 screws, get down with the fixture and repeat. Took 2 guys 3 days to accomplish. Other example: Monday. "I don't wanna work... I still have a hangover from Saturday! Let's have a barbecue with stuff we find on site! So we built a fireplace from bricks, put up the grill of a discarded oven and fired with clean wood scraps... only the meat was store bought)
Posted By: Radar Re: Sloppy Work - 07/25/07 09:52 PM
So am I correct in assuming that the top of this panel is 7' 1" or so high?
Posted By: Elviscat Re: Sloppy Work - 07/25/07 11:37 PM
so, if you tape all your wires together they're considered supported b each other, right?:D
Posted By: CTwireman Re: Sloppy Work - 07/26/07 01:56 AM
I have noticed that the price of the home has no bearing on the quality of the electrical work whatsoever. I have seen million dollar mansions with wiring that looked like a Romex factory exploded, and 1200 sg ft. starter homes with wiring installed with care and precision.

The worst I have ever seen is tract home wiring in California. The stuff in my neck of the woods varies greatly depending on the contractor.
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