what is the best way to estimate a church rec hall. By the drop or square foot. The whole job is going to be run in conduit. And can someone help me on the correct way to count the drops and how much to charge. My bussiness is in NC. I normally do residential work but trying to expand and don't want to lose my butt....

Thanks...

You should never estimate per square foot. Take the time to scope the project.If you do not have the time to scope it, you are taking a shot in the dark. There are too many varibles. It is better to scope it and be too high then winding up to finacing someone elses building.

thank you, not in any hurry, got any pointers on this subject. All my calculation I feel I am too low.

Talk with the representitives of the church. They typically have a shoestring budget so they will likely not sign on for higher end material. Get to know you local building codes. Typically the requirement for a church are little more relaxed. Go over the drawings and specs multiple times to make sure you got everything. For example, there may be additional electrical requiements in the mechanical, elevator if applicable, permit requirements, connection fees, and site development that you will be resposible for. Look at the structure details to see if there is details that require special equipment like a lift in the chapel (vaulted ceilings). If you still feel your bid is still low, figure in more contigency. Look at the construction schedule. Will it require additional personnel? Typically what comes to mind after a contractor gets a job is since I was the lowest bidder, what did I miss?

While in business I had one iron-clad rule for the company. Never do church work or attorney's work. Never lost a dime on any project in 41 years.

I would advise against bidding this project for two reasons.

1] Your experience as described.

2] Church jobs are driven by charitable General Contractors doing "favors" which trickle downs to every sub.

I was a sub into a very large EC and GC. The GC was a very "prime" client for the EC. A PM starved me for men and materials.

When I challenged him he said " It just some stinking little church job, that nobody cares about". Exact quote.

At the same time, the church was requesting donations in labor and materials from the EC, and they were expecting it at progress meetings.

Walk away now.

There is no sense to applying any "rule of thumb" to a church job = except to make your best guess, then double it!

You can count on various quirks of the building - height, fixed seating, etc. - to make access a real challenge. You'll be spending money on lifts, scaffolding, etc.

As others have mentioned, religious institutions have earned a reputation for being bad customers ... constant pressure to cut your price, quibbling with committees over every detail, endless changes, and very slow payment.

In addition to what the others have mentioned, there is the "volunteer labor factor" to consider.

Expect non-tradesman to be performing a large part of the work, like hanging drywall, setting plumbing finish, etc., all in the name of saving money.

This can really slow down the job and can be a scheduling nightmare (things that aren't ready for you to do your job).

We've had a church job that was (generously) scheduled to take 3 months take 15 months.

I agree with the donated labor force. Good intentions only get people fustrated and behind schedule.

I have done several large jobs for several different churches, with minimal problems. That being said you can count on everything everybody said to be true, and then some. Just bid the job per the drawing, include a detailed scope of work, what you will and wont do, and stick to it. Price the job like you would any other including your profit margin, and remember if you do not get it you probably do not want it. As far as estimating, the going rate in my part of the world is $35.00 per drop, this is each receptacle, switch, and fixture, add to this the cost of the service,($2.00 per amp here) then add your usual percentage for headroom in case things get ugly. Put it all on paper and hope for the best.

Thank you all for your help and comments...

Go to church. I meen a church, Or both. Take a good look around,see the architecture. Then you will understand some comments and the pending (potential)doom.

Bottom line: Spell out every minor detail you can think of.From lifts,staging, who covers them. to church members doing work that will affect your progress.It can be done. But you must be razor sharp.

A church rec. hall is a place of public assembly. Read NEC 518.

No pun intended, but how in the Lord's name can a service be estimated a $XX.00 per amp?

this is just what it says, an ESTIMATE each service is different and should be priced accordingly, $2.00 per amp is a starting point that happens to work out about 90% of the time IN MY AREA

==A church rec. hall is a place of public assembly. Read NEC 518.====

Read it carefully.


===No pun intended, but how in the Lord's name can a service be estimated a $XX.00 per amp? ====
\
I agree, for most applications,allbeit residential it is more accurate.

I guess it just shows that given enough data points, anything will start to follow a pattern.

One 1 particularly huge job that I did, we noticed that 12.47KV switchgear was the same price per inch of length, pretty much regardless of what breakers were installed.

Really weird, pretty useless, but interesting and worth discussing over a few brewskis.

I do alot of remolding in residential settings. That said I have my fair share of commercial accounts. If I were you I would painstakingly work up every run I could think of that would be required. As you know your costs for residential runs. You will need to find your costs for your commercial.
Keep in mind things like being on site when the masons installing block to get the conduit in or the pvc conduits that will go into the floor before the pours etc. Is this design build? I would also make it known that you are a for profit business and that freebees will not be part of the deal. Lastly you must know your conduit abilities it is not something to jump in and learn on a job like this.
Good luck~!
Ob

can you put a lien on a church?

So a 200a service is $400. My cost on 200a main breakers homline panel is $140. alone. I'm thinking this would not work out so well here in PA.


Ob

Trev, I'm sure you can lien a church ... but enforcing the lien is an issue. The lien is only a problem at sale time - and churches don't sell very often.

Likewise, churches typically don't use much in the way of credit- and most suppliers watch then like hawks already.

$400? you can do mine for $400

Only time to ever use a sq ft rate is when somebody asks you,"Off the top of your head, give me a number for this building" And when you are to lazy to bid the job and dont want it anyway

I would never use square footage to bid a job. There are too many varibles involved. In my eyes that is just being lazy and when a business is dependent on it bids, that is a lazy business plan. Square footage at best in my eyes only works to ballpark a conceptual project simply because there is nothing else to use. Garbage in, garbage out.