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What in Tarnation?
What in Tarnation?
by timmp, September 10
Plumber meets Electrician
Plumber meets Electrician
by timmp, September 10
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#96791 12/26/05 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,485
Likes: 4
Cat Servant
Member
Don, I did say "trade practices," as I realize that this issue is not one specifically covered in the code. Yet, where the code does discuss running couductors in pipe, it invariable says "all phase conductors will be in the same pipe (more or less)." The code does not distinguish between AC and DC on this issue, nor does it explain why the rule is present (we may deduce it is because of inductive heating issues- but our logic is separate from the code).

So, as a matter of practice, I would start from the position of running them together- and look for justification to do things different.

Considering the price of welding cable, my first impulse would be to run THHN in the pipe- and have some sort of "power point" to plug the cables into closer to the work. I am not there (at the jobsite), however, and I don't know the details- for all I know, running the wires separately, in pipe, over a distance makes a lot of sense.

I'd like to make a comparison, just for a moment, to something as simple as reading. Before we become authors or editors, we learn all sorts of things (i before e, etc). These form the foundation upon which we build- and our ability to communicate suffers when we deviate.
In electric work, the way it is supposed to happen is that first you learn how to do it, then you start learning the codebook. The NEC is pretty blunt about this, where it states plainly that it is neither a textbook nor a design manual. As with most good rules, it lays down general principles, rather than attempting to detail every possible variation. Without first understanding the foundation- the principles of the trade- your understanding of the code will suffer. This fear is probably at the root of my discomfort with "code seminar" inspectors (among others). But I wander....:-)

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

Workgear for Electricians

#96792 12/27/05 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 91
H
Member
George,

I did this 25 years ago in a saw mill. It's been a long time but if I remember correctly we used 250 MCM type THHN copper conductor. We ran the hot lead only, the building steel was used for ground return to the welder. The hot conductors ran to several J-boxs around the mill where they were spliced to a short piece of welding cable with a female welding type connector on it. This short piece was attached to the box with a kellums type grip. The stinger could then be connected to any of these "hot boxes".
There were two or three welders installed this way. Each one served a different area of the buiding.
We also installed an illuminated push button at each "hot box" location. These push buttons were wired to a contactor that turned the welder itself on and off.
The state electrical inspector passed it and the system is still in use today.

[This message has been edited by Helectric (edited 12-27-2005).]

#96793 12/27/05 04:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
Thanks Helectric, that's my experience also. The system I installed was about 30 years ago and it's still in operation today. Works fine. We didn't get as fancy as you with a start contactor but we had the same type approach. The reason we did it was because we have several conveyers running in different direction and we couldn't get over the conveyers with the welder even tho it was on wheels. Our inspector didn't see a problem with it either.


George Little
#96794 12/27/05 06:57 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
Member
???? Would the cable in metallic conduit have some current induced on it while used?


FYI I have been contimplating buying a welder... Everything one would not do with electricity normaly, just for fun....


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#96795 12/27/05 10:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 91
H
Member
Yup, getting the welders over and around equipment was the main reason for this system as well.
Since the illuminated start buttons are connected via a three wire control circuit all of them light up at the same time. This lets people know that a welder is in use so two people at different locations don't try and use the same welder at the same time.
The welder's heat setting is usually left at around 125 amps for 1/8" rod which is the size most commonly used there. Most of the time this eliminates the need to walk to the welder in order to adjust it.

[This message has been edited by Helectric (edited 12-27-2005).]

#96796 12/28/05 05:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
I am in a hurry now but I have to respond to this.

Quote
quote:
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Now you are just being argumentative.
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If you haven't noticed before, I like to be that way.
Don

LMAO [Linked Image]

Yeah I have noticed and have to admit I like to be that way to sometimes. [Linked Image]

Have a great day, Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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