ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Number of Services / Disconnects

It is my opinion that Exception #1 to 230.40 permits a single service to supply a set of service entrance cables for each occupancy and that 230.71(A) permits each set of service entrance cables to have up to six disconnects. However, in this case, the panels themselves require a maximum of 2 disconnects because of 408.16(A).
Don

I don't understand how Exception #1 applies. There is still only one service, not 4 services of different characteristics? Please explain.

I really don't feel strong enough about my stance to argue the point on this issue.

I do agree with Curt and Don in 406.16(A) making it a moot point anyway.

Bryan, after all is said and done, I think you would agree that the ROP's and ROC you mention have no real meaning if the wording in the NEC does not reflect the intent.

With no effort at defining "sets" the literary meaning would be used.

Roger

In my opinion each occupancy is permitted to have one set of service entrance conductors for each different characteristic that is required by that occupancy. In this case each occupancy only requires one characteristic and each occupancy is permited to have one set of service entrance conductors. However, in this case all of the disconnects are in a single location that that would be a violation of the following part of 240.71(A): "There shall be no more than six sets of disconnects per service grouped in any one location."
If the service equipment for each occupancy was not grouped then each set of service entrance cables would be permitted to have up to six disconnects.
Don

Thank you everyone, I am glad this was not a slam dunk.

I looked at this service and read the sections in the code and could not make up my mind if this was permitted or not.

I was wondering if this exception would allow this.


Isn't one "service disconnecting means" one to six disconnects?

Look at how they refer to it in

In that section when they say service disconnecting means they certainly mean any number of switches between 1 and 6 even though they do not say that.

I do not work on thing's like this, my friend is changing this service and I went over to see him.

I did not think of 408.16(A) I thought the fact that this was a service rated "service panel" that it could not also be a lighting and appliance panel.

All very confusing to me, mostly we have 'one service disconnect.

Anymore comments are more than welcome, this service will be removed no matter what we say here, the new service will have 5 tenant panels and a house panel.

Bob

408.16

O.K.! This is an old topic...

But, reguardless of any Code, we all know breakers fail! They are imperfect devices. But the best we have for the purpose, other than fuses, for the protection of having the full available current of the utilities transformer at my bed side alarm clock. I would rather have a Main for the Service, one for each unit, and a breaker for each circuit.

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If these were FPE breakers, I wouldn't think of living there!

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 06-23-2004).]

Before an inspector fails this installation they should look at 230.40 exception #2

There is only one riser, and that is only one set of Service entrance conductors!

FAIL!

"230.71 Maximum Number of Disconnects.
(A) General. The service disconnecting means for each service permitted by 230.2, or for each set of service-entrance conductors permitted by 230.40, Exception Nos. 1, 3, 4, or 5, shall consist of not more than six switches or sets of circuit breakers, or a combination of not more than six switches and sets of circuit breakers, mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switchboard. There shall be no more than six sets of disconnects per service grouped in any one location. For the purpose of this section, disconnecting means used solely for power monitoring equipment, or the control circuit of the ground-fault protection system or power-operable service disconnecting means, installed as part of the listed equipment, shall not be considered a service disconnecting means.


Section 230.71(A) covers the maximum number of disconnects permitted as the disconnecting means for the service conductors that supply the building or structure. One set of service-entrance conductors, either overhead or underground, is permitted to supply two to six service disconnecting means in lieu of a single main disconnect. A single-occupancy building can have up to six disconnects for each set of service-entrance conductors. Multiple-occupancy buildings (residential or other than residential) can be provided with one main service disconnect or up to six main disconnects for each set of service-entrance conductors."

Bob:
A little late....but.
What I see would get a red sticker, basically as E57 eloquently stated above.

One set of service conductors, six switch rule. Multiple service drops on structures, six switch rule again. It's been that way as long as I can remember.

John