ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Color Code for GEC in a Main Service Panel

Scott35

How in the heck can we expect to get the point across to the members here, if we have to deal with this type of foolish code interpretation!

I would challange that inspector immediately to include the entire building department in that city, and ask where they got this information!

This is a serious waste of your time, my time, and the valuable time of our members!

Can you provide an email address for this person or city department so we (I) can let the inspector know that he is incorrect!!

PS: The weather here in San Diego right now is very pleasant! I am sure it will be the same in Phoenix next week!

E-Scott and Joe,

You guys are right! I should have made an inquiry to the Inspector about this, in order to try and help out where code items are mistaken (and to stop rampant errors from being repeated).

I will make inquiry to article quotes the next time this comes up.

Also will cover this crucial point (print-out multiple copies of this thread) to the persons I mentioned in the original topic starting post, so they will have a reference to go by - instead of just saying "Scott T. Says So", and also join the crucade to remove bunk-NEC quotations!

Very imbarassed!!!

Scott35 S.E.T.

p.s. maybe this thread is enlightening to members, so they can experience how even a simple thing such as GEC coloring might be something to think more about with an inspection... at least not to follow my example!

s.e.t.

Scott35:

I will be here to support you.

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 03-08-2003).]

What section of the code can be cited to say that the GEC cannot be green?
Don

None that I know of either.
I did'nt care for it when Chicago included in their code, to prohibit the color green from the grounding conductor. I wrote an amendment to our code to require it to be green. I thought that it being green is more practicle.

Russ

indeed that is very instering part about using egc ... but somehow i try rember older codes book say the same thing ( i have 96 verison and 99 with me and 02 partal done allready) BUT this can make other persons confuseing about useing egc i can understand that about the colour codes using that and unforealy in france the colour is green with yellow strips but by the way check on the internaonal colour codes i am sure they will say the same thing about the egc but all i want to make it more uniform with all sparkys here and inspecter to work together to slove this probem what we been dealing for very long time i know some of the old timers here can recall it the same way as now still kinda of mess here and i will like have every one join in together and get this mess clear up

merci marc

See 310.12(B) and 250.119 ..... says it all!

We have to stop beating up on the dead horse!!

I am sure, again based upon my knowledge of past proposals that this issue was discussed in the proposed changes to the 1996 NEC.

If someone can look into the ROP I believe the committee comment to the proposal to color the GEC green, will clear the up question.

IF THE NEC IS USED, THE GEC CANNOT BE IDENTIFIED AS A GREEN CONDUCTOR!!



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 03-07-2003).]

Joe,
There is nothing in the two sections that you cited that says you can't use green for the grounding electrode conductor. The wording in 250.119 requires the use of green for equipment grounding conductors, but does not forbid its use for the grounding electrode conductor. There is no wording in the NEC that reserves green for equipment grounding only. While 310.12(C) can be cited to prevent the use of green for an ungrounded conductor, it can't be cited to say that green can't be used for the GEC. If the grounding electrode conductor can be any color except white, gray or green, how can we comply with 310.12(C)??? The grounding electrode conductor is a grounding conductor. I think that you can make a better case, that the GEC must be green by citing 310.12(C), then you can by citing 250.19 and 310.12 to say that the GEC can't be green.
Yes, there was a proposal and panel statement, an inspector must cite a section, not an panel comment, on the violation notice. There is not a code section in the 2002 code that prevents the use of green for the grounding electrode conductor.

The wording in the two sections quoted above is clearly different than the wording in 200.7 that reserves the use of white or gray for the grounded conductor. If green is to be exclusively for the equipment grounding conductor, and not for the grounding electrode conductor, then the code must be changed.

Don

Don:

You can live with your interpretation and your personal opinion, and be among those in the industry who might agree with you.

I will stick to my guns, and continue to call it a VIOLATION!

Joe,
Please quote the actual words in the NEC that say you can't use green for the GEC. All you ever do, when challenged as to the actual code wording, is say "I'm right and you're wrong" without citing code words to back up your statements. This forum is to be a learning process, and if it is to work as such, the actual code language must be used. The sections that you cited say what you must use green for, but do not limit the use exclusively to EGCs. This is just like 110.15 where the use of orange is required for the high leg of 120/240 volt 3 phase 4 wire delta system, but this rule does not prevent the use of orange on other conductors.
Is a grounding electrode conductor an "grounding conductor"? If it is, please tell me how 310.12(C) can be complied with when you are using a color other than green for the GEC. If the GEC is not a "grounding conductor", then what is it?
Don